HPVS June 2009

hpvs@lists.lysator.liu.se

33 participants
111 discussions

31 Aug '09

Vi vet alla att den inte finns, men alla har vi väl tankar kring just DEN cykeln som skulle passa oss så bra. Inget verkar passa mig särskilt bra just nu. Jag måste tänka mycket på att skjutsa barn och den kontakt jag har med barnet när jag skjutsar i stol bak på triken är helt ojämförligt bra (se min bild på ning, t ex). Det går bra så länge man har ETT barn... Jag har funderat på sidvagn till tvåhjuling också, men så vill man ha med sig grejer, och det lirar dåligt med barnstolar etc. Varje grej man hänger på hojen lägger på vikt dessutom. Sidvagn + cykelkärra hamnar man på till slut... phu. och fordonet väger väl en bit över 30 kg, och då har man ingen kåpa (utom över cykelkärran). Någon som har idéer? Själv tycker jag att en quad verkar allt mer lockande. bara två spår istället för tre som på en trike. Hög stabilitet. Man kan sitta i bredd utan att fordonet blir bredare än en tandemtrike, och den blir dessutom mycket kortare än en tandemtrike. Dessutom blir alla hjul sidohängda - lätt att byta däck! Det här fordonet "får" väga uppemot 30 kg utan att vara tyngre än tvåhjulingsalternativet med alla sina påhäng... för att inte tala om allt krångel om man ska hålla på och haka av och på alla grejer från hojen. Många ger upp quadtanken verkar det som p g a vikt och komplexitet. Tror ni jag också kommer att ge upp, och isåfall, varför? /Bruno __________________________________________________________ Låna pengar utan säkerhet. Jämför vilkor online hos Kelkoo. http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014

9 31

Re: [hpvs] elmotorassistans
by B D 08 Aug '09

08 Aug '09

Förresten, den motor med remväxel jag nämnde förut är inte i produktion längre. Och det var inte själva motorn som personen gillade, utan en elcykel men som han nu modifierar med en ombyggd version av denna nedväxlade navmotor. När det gäller drivremmar så har jag fått tipset att T2,5 inte är så kraftiga, utan man ska hellre satsa på dimensioner som T5. Fortfarande kan minsta remhjul ha 10 tänder och det största jag sett hittills har 100 tänder... Sen finns det ett kit med ett remhjul man fäster på ekrarna på cykeln. Den har 260 tänder och drivhjulet för motorn har 11 tänder... men inget frihjul där utan det blir direktdrift hela tiden. /Bruno __________________________________________________________ Låna pengar utan säkerhet. Jämför vilkor online hos Kelkoo. http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014

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Re: [hpvs] Den optimala cykeln
by B D 02 Aug '09

02 Aug '09

--- Den mån 2009-04-13 skrev Erik Stenlund <erixper(a)yahoo.com>: > Bruno, du kommer aldrig att ge upp. Eventuellt kommer du > aldrig att komma till skott därför att livet liksom kommer > emellan tillsammans med ett eller annat nytt projekt. Det > är ju en helt annan sak. Som luffaren sade: på sig själv > känner man andra... > Quad tycks vara melodin för långsammare transportfordon i > första hand. Tack, Erik. Var ute och taxade runt lite med tvåhjulingen på byn i helgen och med alla stopp så måste jag säga att jag uppskattar flerspårscyklar eller "stödhjul". Det är ett ständigt i-och-ur-klickande av sko och balanserande i låga farter och det nöter något, kan jag säga. Tyvärr är flerspårcyklar mycket riktigt långsammare. En trike kan vara irriterande långsam när underlaget är dåligt, och då har jag ändå en rätt så slimmad trike. På byn är det okej med tanke på alla start och stopp och taxande i låg fart men på långturer vill man kanske ha lite mer tempo ibland än vad en trike kan ge. Det enda receptet är smalt och lågt då, tyvärr, och så lätt som bara är möjligt. Hakar man på en kärra blir vilken hoj som helst långsam. Det är då quaden kommer in i bilden, den kan nog bli snabbare och lättare än en cykel-kärra-kombination och ger då två spår istället för tre eller fem i värsta fall. Fördelen med delta är enkel framvagn men nackdelen är komplicerad drivlina. En tadpole är tvärtom. En quad har båda nackdelarna. Så det är inte lätt, det här. /Bruno __________________________________________________________ Låna pengar utan säkerhet. Jämför vilkor online hos Kelkoo. http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014

1 1

Liggcykel med regnskydd vann tävling.
by Fred Werter 11 Jul '09

11 Jul '09

Ni har redan läst det antar jag men kul att länk till iallafall. http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2009/01/we-have-winner.html Jag kopierar allt ihop så behöver ni inte leta efter det på nätet. Citat: > It has taken some time, but I can finally announce that Torkel Dohmers' "ThisWay" concept has been chosen as the winning entry in the Bicycle Design "commuter bike for the masses" design competition. Congratulations to Torkel, who will receive a Cannondale Bad Boy 700 for his efforts. ... > First, let me back up a bit. In order to decide on the finalists, each juror made a list of their top ten picks in order of preference. From those lists, I assigned points to each pick (10 points for first, down to 1 point for tenth). I compiled the points for each entry that we chose, and the six finalists were decided based on those numbers. As we made those initial lists, we each wrote a short comment about each of our picks. Here are a few of those initial comments about Torkel's "ThisWay" concept. > > "This semi-enclosed design is different and attractive to be a clean, mould-breaking alternative to non-cyclists. The frame is light (and potentially low cost in volume) due to tall frame (high 2nd moment of area), and offers more protection from other road users, weather and can be seen. My only hesitation is the semi-recumbent riding position, which may put off previously infrequent riders." > > "Fresh concept, well executed design, weather + crash protectionmake it appealing to non-cyclists. By far the best proposal in myopinion. I'd move the seat up a bit higher for improved safety in heavytraffic though." > > "This one is my favorite concept by a long shot. I have seen attempts at a bicycle frame with a partial roof before, but they all look clumsy and top heavy. In this case though, the overall form looks integrated and visually works well. The semi-recumbent riding position is not all that different than the position of a driver in a car, so it may appeal to non-cyclists. I think the seat could be a bit higher to allow a ride similar to a Townie or one of the other popular "foot forward" upright bikes that are popular today. The presentation board could have done a better job explaining the modular cargo attachment on the rear of the frame, but overall I think this concept address the car replacement issue best of all." > > "Personally I've never tried a recumbent - I'm very comfortable on a regular bike, but a recumbent makes me think I would have to learn to bike all over again, (would love to try one though!). I can imagine that they are fairly stable as your c.o.g. is lower, but since you are sitting low you are not visible in the traffic. I'm imagining a recumbent could be a bigger obstacle for a non-biker to overcome than to get on a regular bike, especially when thinking about different age groups it's an issue with familiarity and perception. What I do like though is that it has the playful outline / x-section of a car indicating that it is a step closer to a car than a regular bike. Overall a very nice design. Like that it has a roof but I guess it never rains sideways where he lives..." > > So based on the numbers, "ThisWay" easily made the list of finalists, but that was just step one. We still had to agree on a winner, and that is when the real jury discussion started. As you can see from the comments above, a few of the jurors liked the concept, but had some reservations about the recumbent riding position right off the bat. As we discussed the six finalists, a couple of jurors still had reservations about Torkel's concept: > > "My main concern is that a recumbent would be a bigger obstacle for a non-biker to overcome than to get on a regular bike, especially when thinking about different age groups it's an issue with familiarity and perception. I think a regular person would feel that they would have to learn to bike all over again therefore they would stick to what they are familiar with, their car. > > To me this would appeal to a bike-enthusiast for which there are plenty of bikes already on the market - so it is not inclusive. A non-biker is, for example, a mom with a busy schedule and several kids, an high-up executive with status issues and a really expensive car he / she loves to show off, a person with back and neck-problems, an older person afraid of falling, an obese person who considers walking their main form for exercise, etc etc. > > A non-biker, who is new to recumbents, would probably not feel safe in heavy traffic as you will sit considerably lower than on a regular bike." > > A few responses to the rider position concerns were: > > "To recommend a higher riding position, ie 'foot forward' rather than recumbent, not a sporty position but nearer classic urban Dutchbikes, than it is now." > > "A (slight) foot forward geometry is amazingly comfortable, for most people. It also feels efficient (except for maybe 'racers')." > > "I don't think a feet first semi-recumbent position is necessarily bad, but the seat could move up a bit. Maybe it could fall somewhere between what is shown in the rendering and something like and Electra Townie." > > Another concern about this concept was the potential cost/ commercial viability, to which one juror responded: > > "I think with decent production engineering (possibly using frame making techniques from Toy, Boat, or sport equipment makers rather than bike frame makers) .... it could be made to sell under $1000 to start and under $500 if volume took off." > > "From an engineering point of view the 'frame' can potentially be pretty light for its size. This is because the materials are basically in the right places to maximize stiffness, without being a fully enclosed 'eggshell' (it has a large 2nd moment of area). I could imagine this being molded in glass fiber, around hollow tubes, or even blow or roto-molded ! So cost and weight need not be 'show stoppers'. > > In addition to questions about rider position, the jury pointed out other issues that could be addressed with future development; shielding from road water spray, transmission routing, the possibility of electric assist, etc. Most of those points are minor details though. Overall, out of all the entries, "ThisWay" was the concept that most of us on the jury felt was "different enough to be a 'paradigm shift' from, and an alternative to, existing bikes." > > I could throw in many, many more quotes from the jury, but this post is already getting long. It is impossible to capture all the different thoughts, but I do hope that the short bits from our discussions help to give you an idea of the thought and back and forth discussion that went into the decision. I will close with one more quote from a jury member: > > "I think we can all agree that convincing a non-biker to leave their car behind is a very complex and interesting problem to solve. There are so many levels to this that we probably haven't even thought of, and it would take a lot of research / ethnographies to uncover all the different issues involved and to understand how to address them." > > I couldn't agree more, so let's keep the discussion going. After all, that is what this blog is all about. > > > Finally, before I close out this (long) post, I want to again thank the other jurors for the time and effort that they put into this competition. Thanks to: > > Torgny Fjeldskaar- Director of Industrial Design & Advanced Products Division at Cannondale Bicycle Corporation > > Mark Sanders- Principal of MAS Design Products Ltd and designer of the Strida and IF Bikes > > Agnete Enga- Senior Industrial Designer, Smart Design/ Femme Den, NYC > > Carlton Reid- Editor at BikeBiz, Quickrelease.tv, Bikeforall.net, and BiketoWorkBook.com

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Re: [hpvs] HPV båt
by B D 10 Jul '09

10 Jul '09

--- Den ons 2009-06-24 skrev Petter Wingren-Rasmussen <petterwr(a)gmail.com>: > http://www.liggister.org/Trampkraft/nr26sid1/BILDER/ALBUM/HPBVM03/26.html > > /Petter Den såg cool ut. Men måste man sitta så högt i en HPB? Med tanke på hur lätt man blåser omkring i en kajak, t ex, borde det vara intressant med bättre strömlinjeform, kanske till och med kåpa/kaross... /Bruno __________________________________________________________ Låna pengar utan säkerhet. Jämför vilkor online hos Kelkoo. http://www.kelkoo.se/c-100390123-lan-utan-sakerhet.html?partnerId=96915014

5 8

Vikcykel i repris
by Lasse 09 Jul '09

09 Jul '09

Biltemas förra vikcykel ser ut att ha kommit i repris, kanske inte hos en återförsäljare med gott rykte om sina cyklar men ändå. Harald Nyborg har en vikcykel som jag inte för mitt liv kan se någon skilnad på mot biltemas gamla vikcykel, mer än att styret är annorlunda. http://www.harald-nyborg.se/merinfo.asp?varenr=8841&Grp=&n=40100 Samma modell som jag byggde liggcykel på och som Lars Vibke recenserat http://www.liggister.org/swedishfoldables/BiltemarecensionerViebke.htm -- http://nazca.blogg.se/

5 8

Vad behöver göras för att få fler att cykla?
by Fred Werter 30 Jun '09

30 Jun '09

Citat: > WHO > > I think we all agree upon that the goal of the competition is not a bike for a sport fanatic. How do you get a person that doesn't necessarily like to bike to bike? I doubt that we can come up with one bike that will appeal to every non-biking person, but here are a couple of things to keep in mind when thinking about who the non-biker potentially is: > > As designers we are so used to designing for the average (read: healthy) user. However, many people, young and old, have something they are struggling with: poor vision, dexterity issues, obesity, back problems etc. The goal should be to design "For Everyone", basic principle of Universal design ("Designing for all ages and abilities to eliminate segregation and adaptation"). As this group is probably not being accommodated by current bike designs, there is a huge opportunity to understand these needs, and to design accordingly. > > Roughly half of the world's population consists of women so the trick is to also appeal to them. Many of them are working fulltime jobs and taking care of kids, so they have little spare time to do things for themselves. If they are not interested in biking in the first place, this will end up far down on their priority list. Also the ladies usually have a longer prep-time in the morning, (I'm sure you all know that :) So becoming sweaty from biking to work means the hassle of dragging on more stuff :( Safety when biking around alone at night is also a major factor, which will in many cases make a woman choose other means of transportation instead. One other point here from an avid female biker friend of mine apparently it is incredible difficult for small women to find a bike frame that actually fits well... Again, an understanding of the needs of a wide range of females, and designing accordingly presents a huge opportunity. > > WHERE > > Where a person lives will undoubtedly have a huge impact on his / her willingness to give up their current form for transportation, whether it is car, train etc. The USA, for example, is a country built on convenience wherever you go you have Drive through, Drive in and Drive by. A modern car is a moving living room on wheels and a bike will never substitute that. In my home country I used to take my bike most places, but when I moved to the US years ago to live in LA I was soon driving wherever I needed to go even short distances because of safety, timesaving and convenience on every level. I felt pretty guilty for doing so, but was still driving around... > > WHAT / HOW > > We need to switch the focus from the bike to the user sounds easy, but it is also very easy to get lost in an overload of features. Not all features add value to the bike, sometimes they can detract...What are people's true needs and values? It's about finding the right benefits. > > I think it is hard to get non-bikers excited about the bike itself only it has to promise an interesting LIFESTYLE. Companies can no longer rely on cost and features as a differentiation factor, they now have to appeal to users on an emotional level - how can you offer a meaningful experience, what is the reward? The big question is: What is the MOTIVATION FACTOR to get people to commute by bike? Yes the bike needs to be easy to use, comfortable, practical, efficient, but more importantly - FUN!! I think it will be hard to get people excited about fenders, chain guards and other practical elements alone. And exercising and speed may not be the main motivation to get them out of the car. What is fun for you is not necessarily fun for them... And commuting for them may not mean miles and miles, it may just mean part of their commute like a short ride to the train station. > > The bike itself is only one part of the equation - you have to consider the whole experience (advertising, store, brand message etc). Even entering a bike store can be a pretty intimidating for the non-biker not knowing the lingo and what the options are. You can do an incredible job on designing the bike itself, but if you can't get people into the store...? To put it in perspective - consider yourself and how you would feel walking into, let's say, a make-up store, looking to buy something for your gal you probably feel pretty out of place... So store environment and service is pretty key. And if the messaging is off, the salespeople will never be able to sell the bike for its true value. > > Also, a bike for a non-biker does not at all mean a dumbed down version of a bike. There is lots of complexity within a bike, but as long as it doesn't look like a contraption don't forget that the desire for having something that is well-engineered is important, (like with cars it's pretty satisfying to look under the hood of a beautiful car!). So don't necessarily hide technical features completely but balance it with a user-friendly experience you want it to promise that it is safe, solid and reliable - it can get you places. > > My personal favorite of the competition entries was the ReCycle Café concept. It offers a bike community to someone that is not a hardcore biker-dude. It's about the PEOPLE you meet, it becomes a social and fun meeting place, and that would encourage a non-biker to ride more! I think in order to motivate the non-biker you need a combination of several things, such as: infrastructure suited for bike commuting, a social meeting place, (like Recycle Café), where a non-biker would feel at home, plus an online reward system, (inspired by Bikonomic), and a cool-looking, user-friendly, iconic, fun bike that you would feel proud driving around. Från här. http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2009/02/agnetes-who-where-what-from-desig… Hon som skriver detta är en duktig industridesigner som lever på att lyckas designa saker som säljer. Om jag förstått.

1 0

Kedjerör
by Cenny 30 Jun '09

30 Jun '09

Är det någon som kan tipsa om var man kan köpa kedjerör??

5 5

Re: [hpvs] HPV båt
by B D 30 Jun '09

30 Jun '09

--- Den sön 2009-06-28 skrev S Deluxe <simongdeluxe(a)hotmail.com>: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQRtgEIs--k > > flyak på film. ¨ Imponerande, en K4 har ju mycket längre vattenlinje och kraft, att en K1 kan klå en sådan är rätt så otroligt tycker jag. Uppenbarligen funkar bärplansbåten mycket bra. Frågan är bara hur mycket effekt eller vilken fart som krävs för att man ska få ett övertag mot en vanlig kajak. Troligen är väl inte bärplan något för normal turpaddling, utan bara för rekordförsök. Jag har gärna fel på den punkten, men jag misstänker starkt att jag inte har det tyvärr... /Bruno __________________________________________________________ Ta semester! - sök efter resor hos Kelkoo. Jämför pris på flygbiljetter och hotellrum här: http://www.kelkoo.se/c-169901-resor-biljetter.html?partnerId=96914052

2 1

Re: [hpvs] För de elektricitetshämmade
by Olaf Johansson 29 Jun '09

29 Jun '09

Wow, en Legway! Ge mig två! Den Sun, 28 June 2009 23:07 skrev nertus: > Det är möjligt att ni sett den förr, men jag tänkte bara nämna att det finns > alternativ till Segway för dem som händelsevis är rabiata motståndare till > allt elektriskt: > > www.instructables.com/id/Steampunk-Segway-Legway-/ > > > > -- > Svara gärna EFTER orginaltexten och ta bort den delen som du inte svarar på. > Info: http://lists.lysator.liu.se/mailman/listinfo/hpvs -- http://www.ritoprat.se

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HPVS June 2009