Blakes7 May 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

84 participants
897 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Ellynne's joke
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > > When he and his wife come home, the milkman is dead on the floor. > > > > > > > > > There were about 20 people present when the joke was toled and, when > > > polled, we gave the reasons stated. > > > > >Ah! So the division of laughter among the sexes goes from this-- the > >women are amused by the idea labour pains would kill a man ("They're > >such babies") and the men laugh because of the father not recognizing > >from the lack of pain he's a cuckold. Also the reason why he's lying on the floor of their home, is because the milkman has moved in as the lodger. Brilliant isn't it? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Truth
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Elynne G wrote: >Jenny Kaye wrote > > >Perhaps s/he didn't get the joke and was just laughing because everyone >else > >was, and then when pressed had to come up with something. Unless you >print > >the joke that story is pretty useless. > >My apologies. I've somehow felt the punchline summarized it so well. >And, since I've given it away, I don't know that telling it will help, >but here goes - <snipped> That's fantastic! I LOL. Well done. It a brilliant joke. 1/ The milkman is the real father 2/ The husband has inadvertently killed him. 3/ It's saying that child birth is so painful it could kill a man 4/ The milkman is dead on the floor of their home. What's he doing there? I feel like Orac in Ultraworld. Hope I haven't spoilt it for anyone by explaining it!!! >There were about 20 people present when the joke was tole and, when >polled, we gave the reasons stated. > >But why stop there? This is a common element of folklore - the same >story means different things to different people. It _has_ to. It's how >cultures survive. All the meanings are there, but they are not all necessary picked up by everyone. The stories that help teach alter with what needs to >be taught. >That's true. >Or apply it to your personal experience. That's true. Aren't there events >in your life that you think of with different meanings according to >circumstance? Yes, of course there are. The first meeting with a boyfriend may mean one thing when >you like him, a different thing when you break up, and something else >entirely when you look back on it forty years down the road. Or ever >read A Light in the Forest? Two Indians traveling through a colonial >village and trying to be friendly tell a joke where the punchline is >about a settler being outsmarted by an Indian. The meaning to them is >humor and friendly overture, if a bit insensitive. The meaning to the >villagers is potential threat and suspicion (it leads to one of the >Indians being suspected of a crime and being killed). To a white friend >of theirs, it's a red flare that trouble is on the way. All this is true, but you are missing the point. All these meanings are there in the joke already. It depends on the context of the joke. > > >2) If you really do believe there can only ever be one right > > >interpretation, I can help. It's mine. There, doesn't that make life > > >easier for you? > > >Yes it does for me because I know you're wrong. > >Ah, knowledge. An interesting concept. Is this like the conundrum that >starts all Martians are liars? Or the one where A is 'B is true' and B >is 'A is false'? If I know I am right and you know I am wrong then the >average velocity of a swallow is . . . . What I am saying is that your interpretation isn't the only one. But the potential for that interpretation has got to be there in the first place. That wonderful joke you told about the milkman works on at least 4 levels, but some jokes only work on one. And if you had told me the milkman joke and I had said it's funny because "at work the lightbulb blew in the toilets this morning" you'd think, is she being surreal or is she just plain mad? My response might even make you laugh, but then if I argue that my response to the joke was perfectly normal and that my response could be plausibly deducted from the text of the joke, then, quite frankly, I would need locking up. > > >3) In keeping with the above, I'm sure we all agree the version of >Hamlet > > >with zombies was definitive, right? > > >In your head it probably is. > >For those who haven't heard me belabour this one before, there's a great >essay called (I think) Shakespeare in the Bush, written by an >anthropologist working in Africa. Before one trip out to live with a >particular tribe, she got into a rather similar argument with another >anthropologist about Hamlet. She was of the opinion that there can only >be _one_ right interpretation of Hamlet. The friend told her to take a >copy along and study it, assuring her time with this tribe would change >her mind. <snipped for length> That was very entertaining. Now imagine this. A man with the "Bushman mindset" is present at Ophelia's funeral. Laertes jumps into his sister's grave and then tries to grab her body. The man with the "Bushman mindset" starts to shout "Laertes is a murderer! He wants to sell Opelia's body to witches." The man looks around at the startled mourners. He can't understand why they aren't arresting Laertes, and why they seem more stunned by his outburst than doing anything else. The man decides to act. He attacks Laertes. The mourners, seeing what's happening jump into the grave and attack the man. A huge punch up ensues. The man decides that the people attacking him are Laertes' accomplices, and that they want to kill him and steal his body as well. He draws a knife and stabs one to death. This doesn't go down too well. One of the mourners picks up a spade the splits the mans skull open. The man dies. Months later they are still talking about it. The day a madman came to Ophelia's funeral. The Bushman is perfectly safe within the context of his own society. However, placed suddenly in the context of another he appears mad. He has failed to read the situation and it has got himself killed. Now think on this. What if this man who caused a fuss at Ophelia's funeral was not a bushman at all. But in fact a native of Denmark? There would be no reason for him to act that way. That behaviour would run totally contrary to the society he was brought up in. That man would be mad. Now here, we are not Bushmen reading Shakespeare. We are Westerners looking at a Western programme. There is a mindset on Lysator that states that all IMO's are valid. They aren't and that kind of behaviour if translated to the outside world, is going to cause some people on this lyst immense problems. It could even get them killed. There is a Farside cartoon that I think sums up the situation. A hunter, wearing safari gear and armed with a gun is stalking through the woods. Suddenly he comes across a dear. It's standing on its hind legs dressed in a shirt, blazer and top hat. "Howdy", it says, "The vacuum bags are hot today. Any luck?" The caption on that cartoon reads something like, "When animal camouflage breaks down." I'll give you one guess as to what is going to happen to that poor deluded dear. > >Not at the beginning of the play. > >Well, that part was facetious. No. It's a statement of fact, don't get stroppy now, I'm warming to you. > >Although, did anyone actually take their pulse anywhere in the play . . . ? LOL. >I have no idea what this all means in terms of B7 except that there may >be a culture out there that saw everything Avon and Blake did as totally >reasonable and even warm and fuzzy. If there is, and they exist in the context of the western world we are living in now, they are either deluded or fucked up. Dangerous. >Also, I'm getting more and more sympathy for Vila and his failed attempts >to defuse conflict with humour. Conflict is sometimes very necessary, Ellynne. Ask Blake. Sometimes Angels can be mistaken for demons, because they are suddenly ripping down a belief you hold dear. I'm not a demon Ellynne, I'm just trying to save your life. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Vila's record
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

From: Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > > 1. Vila--recidivist thief (although what he's actually shown doing in > > > subsequent episodes is more like safecracking, which is a specialist > > > skill) > > > > >True, but I suspect he began as a pickpocket. The slieght of hand he > >uses to do the magic tricks is also very suitable for pick-pocketing. In > >fact pick-pocketing *is* a skill serious slieght of hand magicians > >frequently study... they have to be able to plant things on people > >without them knowing, for instance. (This is one case where I know what > >I'm talking about-- my husband was seriously into magic and we went over > >the biographies of a lot of magicians). Up to this point you have written an excellent email, but now: > >IMO, Don't use "IMOs" Helen, it debases your argument. That is its function. > >it is more probable that a > >more pickpocket met up with people in jail who could lead him to the > >more specialised crime of safecracking, than for him to start as a > >safe-cracker and pick up the other as a hobby. Also having both skill > >sets would mean the general term thief covers both aspects rather than a > >more specialist term. This is a superb email. But never use "IMO" again. This is no joke. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] A word of warning
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Stephen Date wrote: >I will probably regret doing this.... > >--- Jenny Kaye <jennycat55(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Stephen Date wrote: > > > > >--- Jenny Kaye <jennycat55(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Susan Beth wrote: > > > > > > > > >What a sick thing to do. > > > > > > > > > >All my sympathies, Annie! I hope you'll have > > lots > > > > and lots of positive > > > > >fannish encounters at MediaWest to wipe away > > the > > > > taste of this nastiness. > > > > > > > > When animal camouflage breaks down. Fun this, > > isn't > > > > it? > > > > > > >Not in the slightest. > > > > > >Annie - I'm really sorry that any one could be so > > >bloody awful to do this. > > > > When animal camouflage breaks down. That *is* a > > surprise. > > > > Jenny > > > > >Jenny, > >I realise that the usual courtesies of debate don't >apply to you but this sort of offensive harassment is >a bit more serious than your usual trolling. So please >give it a rest. It isn't harassment Stephen, and I'm not a troll. But I'll tell you what you are; you're innocent. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] A word of warning
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Mistral wrote: >I'm stunned and appalled; I would never have expected this. My deepest >sympathies. When animal camouflage breaks down. How many's that now? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: a word of warning
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

JEB31538(a)cs.com wrote: >Anyway, Annie, keep your chin up. And thank you, also, for making us >aware >of what is happening. When animal camouflage breaks down. More than I thought. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: the limits of parody
by Helen Krummenacker 17 May '01

17 May '01

Bizzarro7 said: > Deja vu. > > Welcome back, Shane. > ::slapping forehead:: I knew the talk-show host name was probably a psuedonym. Same writing style. I think you've hit it.

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re: A word of warning
by Ashton7＠aol.com 17 May '01

17 May '01

A number of people have reported to me that have had problems connecting to the URL I provided in my first message. First, let me thank Julia for providing a better copy of the URL. Unfortunately, because the address was long, it is getting broken up and you may have to cut and paste the separate lines together. In any case, here is a shorter address that also worked (for me) to go to the same site: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=fa268efd0c2bc972… If this line gets split, just paste it back together as one long line. Hope that helps those of you who have written me privately. Annie

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Re: [B7L] A word of warning
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Stephen Date wrote: >--- Jenny Kaye <jennycat55(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Susan Beth wrote: > > > > >What a sick thing to do. > > > > > >All my sympathies, Annie! I hope you'll have lots > > and lots of positive > > >fannish encounters at MediaWest to wipe away the > > taste of this nastiness. > > > > When animal camouflage breaks down. Fun this, isn't > > it? > > >Not in the slightest. > >Annie - I'm really sorry that any one could be so >bloody awful to do this. When animal camouflage breaks down. That *is* a surprise. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Jenny's Episode Reviews: Space Fall
by Tavia 17 May '01

17 May '01

Dana wrote: >It's hard to tell how many troops he has available for deployment--some >died or were wounded in the mutiny, and Leylan certainly has to keep >the remaining prisoners closely guarded. He might not have anyone to spare. If Leylan's five in Cygnus is correct, only one guard appears to have died in the mutiny (assuming Krell later dies). It also says in Cygnus that the prisoner compartments could be dosed with suppressant vapour. Tavia

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Blakes7 May 2001