Blakes7 May 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

84 participants
897 discussions

Re: [B7L] Quoting B7 at friends
by Leia Fee 23 May '01

23 May '01

Message text written by INTERNET:Carolyn772@aol.com >><< You obviously weren't as convincing as Avon >> >That or the lack of a sidearm... :)< Good point.<grin> Leia

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Re: [B7L] H&H: intro comments
by Tavia 23 May '01

23 May '01

Susan Beth wrote: >...I realized that you can pair the male/female types up, one to one, >with the differences between the two being due to social and gender >factors. Rather annoying... Though I suppose one should perhaps make allowances for fictional representations rather than an attempt at realism? >...we all (that is, people in general) have grown up being >exposed to these hero archetypes our entire lives, from nursery school >tales and fairy tales and on through every book read and hour of television >or movies watched. As a result we are quick to spot the telling traits, >and assign a new character to the 'proper' role - which is a great help to >writers. It might be more general than that. The urge to understand and predict the behaviour of things seems fundamental to intelligence; assigning complex objects such as people into neat pigeonholes where various characteristics are bundled is just an unfortunate side effect. >it could be that it also introduces a bias in what we consider 'important' >or 'pertinent' evidence when we watch B7. Once we have (consciously or >not) decided that Gan is The Best Friend, we note and remember the details >that point that way, and dismiss as unimportant or 'accidents' of >production/continuity errors details that don't fit. Too true. I was trying and perhaps failing to express this idea when I posted on preconceptions and gentle giants...... I shall be interested to see what the book comes up with for the other characters. Tavia

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Re: Orbit
by Steve Rogerson 23 May '01

23 May '01

Marian said: "he'd sacrifice his studded leathers. Together with Dayna they'd probably made the weight." No, there are limits beyond which even Avon won't go -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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AutoPost: Lyst Culture Guide
by kat＠welkin.apana.org.au 23 May '01

23 May '01

Guide to Lyst Culture ********************** (written for the B7 mailing list at <http://lists.lysator.liu.se/mailman/listinfo/blakes7>) composed by Kathryn Andersen version 1.02 Considering the number of newbies who have admitted to being nearly frightened away by the manner of folks on this list, and wondering how much larger the number who *were* frightened away, I figured it was a good idea to write a Gentle Introduction which will lift confusion and humanise the apparently terrifying denizens of these electronic halls. Me saw need, me wrote. If me make mistakes, please tell, so corrections entered. This is by no means meant to replace the actual Lyst FAQ (at <http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/b7list/FAQ.html>) but serve as an adjunct to it. This is *not* a rule-set of customs. It is *descriptive* not proscriptive. The actuality, not the ideal. The distillation of our understanding of what the Lyst is like, so that folks don't have to read a year's worth of posts in order to get an idea of what the heck is going on here... Also, if you're new to the net, you might find the following helpful - common E-Mail abbreviations <http://www.zeusprod.com/glossary/mailterm.html> - Netiquette (net etiquette) <http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/Beginner_s_Guides/Neti…> - The Google Search Engine <http://www.google.com> which I used to find the above URLs... Lyst Culture In A Bottle ************************* What's this "Lyst" business? ============================= The mailing list <blakes7(a)lists.lysator.liu.se> was, so far as I know, the first Blake's 7 (electronic) mailing list to be created (and it also predates the newsgroup). Note the "lysator" in the address. Since there are other lists (most notably, the Other List (see Lyst FAQ)), presumably to save having to say "the lysator List", a shorthand for that is simply "the Lyst". Our Esteemed Listowner, Calle, is not a woman. This doesn't stop people calling him "Cally", indeed, it would be almost irresistible not to, considering the subject of this List. Nobody outside his native country can actually pronounce his name correctly, but it may help those who want to try, to keep in mind that "Calle" comes from the same root as "Carl". Not only that, it's a common short form of Carl, in the same way that Dick is for Richard. Contrary to rumour, "lysator" does not mean "liberator" in Calle's native tongue. It apparently doesn't mean anything in particular. Posting Style ============== Unlike many other lists, we don't tend to be chatty, and off-topic posts are (after a while) encouraged to go to the Spin-off list (see Lyst FAQ), so that we can get down to the serious business of discussing the political systems in B7 or the nature of terrorism or how teleportation works; or the lighthearted business of Avon's red leather trousers or what kind of ice cream the particular characters would prefer, or how to recast the series. It isn't a required custom on this list to introduce yourself, though a few people like to. People also don't tend to issue a formal welcome to newbies -- we just get on with the discussion and expect folks to join in (or not). Please don't consider this unfriendly; it's simply... focused. We're always interested in fresh ideas. If someone doesn't respond to your posting it could simply be because they agreed with it -- and didn't want to write a "me too" post. On the other hand, feel free to consider this unfriendly... but if you do, then it behooves you to go and welcome people, don't it? If the Lyst seems particularly busy and snarky, it's probably February. Odd Acronyms and Other Collections ================================== If you are confused by people referring to "the wrath of FINALACT" or suchlike, be confused no longer. As with many online fandoms, groups of like-minded fans often declare allegiance to their particular favourite characters, and form groups. Generally in order to be part of such a group... one simply declares oneself to be part of it. One doesn't have to be part of any group at all, and these groups are not meant to be taken deadly seriously either. Though some are more tongue-in-cheek than others. Often they are formed of those who consider their view to be a minority one. The Tarrant Nostra ------------------ Yes, this one doesn't have odd acronyms but with such a cool name, who needs them? The first known reference to the Tarrant Nostra by that name is apparently in 1995, though the core group was around for longer than that. The name sprung from the mind of Brooke Barker. This group, is, obviously, those who favour Tarrant. Carol McCoy is "The Godmother" of the Tarrant Nostra; other members may not be so clearly identified. See Also <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/TarrantNostra/tarrant.htm> F.I.N.A.L.A.C.T. ---------------- This stands for "Foundation Invalidating Numerous Accusations Levelled At Croucher's Travis". These are the fans who prefer Brian Croucher's Travis, aka Travis II. They have a tendency to threaten detractors with The Comfy Chair, Karaoke music and Teletubby torture. Jacqueline Thijsen is the Chief Inquisitor. Penny Dreadful is their Queen, hopeful of being elevated to godhood, so that Iain Coleman can be Pope. See also <http://tezcatlipoca.algonet.se/cgi-bin/getbyid.pl?id=26736> G.I.T.H.O.G. ------------ This stands for "Greif Is Travis, House Of Greif". Byline -- 'In Time, We All Come to Greif'. These are the fans who prefer Stephen Grief's Travis, aka Travis I. They appear to be less active than FINALACT, probably because they don't perceive themselves to be in the minority. See also <http://tezcatlipoca.algonet.se/cgi-bin/getbyid.pl?id=33344> A.S.K.S. -------- Avon's Sympathetic Kindred Spirits go against the flow of Avon fans because they don't give a fig whether he looks sexy in black leather, they just identify with him. Kathryn Andersen made up this acronym, so she is presumably the founding member. Gareth's Gorillas ----------------- Fans who are into Gareth Thomas and his work, as distinct from just being interested in Blake (though they are interested in Blake too). Chief Gorilla is Judith Proctor. One may see them at cons wearing "Gareth's Gorilla" badges. The Gan Defence League ---------------------- Those who appreciate the unsung and oft under-appreciated Olag Gan. Judith Proctor goes around distributing oak leaves to those who stand up for Gan and say nice things about him. S.C.A.M. -------- Society for Crushing Animals Maligners, given a name by Una McCormack, the (almost) sole person who not only liked the episode "Animals", but strives to defend it. Dedicated to the art of Justinification (justifying Justin). Followers of the Goddess ------------------------ The concept of the Golden Goddess Soolin, her Acolyte Dayna, and the Chief Hairdresser Vila was the invention of Ophelia (aka Kanna-Ophelia, aka (name suppressed on request))... not quite as gone as we thought. J.A.D.E. -------- Jarriere's Always Discriminating Enthusiasts don't actually tend to use this acronym a lot, but their influence has been far-reaching; not only did they get this minor character who only appeared in one episode (Gambit... Travis called him a powder-puff) into the top 20 of an online poll of favourite SF characters.... but they actually persuaded a fannish model-maker to include Jarriere into their line of die-cast models (after Avon, Blake, Travis and Vila). They are led by Harriet Monkhouse, who, after another Harriet joined the Lyst in 2001, decided to style herself Jarriet (or Harriere) to cut down on possibilities of mistaken identity. Avon Without Guilt ------------------ Not a terribly active group these days, but Pat Nussman founded "AWG" -- Avon Without Guilt. As in, yes, we *know* it's terribly common; we *know* that more discerning tastes move on from their first attraction to the Dark and Snarly One in favor of the more arcane delights of, oh, The Thane and Bruce; we *know* he has a less than stellar character. So what? We still love him, and we refuse to be guilty about it. It is worthwhile noting that Barbara Paul dedicated one of her novels to the Avon Without Guilt group. See <http://www.barbarapaul.com/holland.html> Sickly Equines =============== Certain topics have a habit of coming up over and over again. I'm reluctant to call them dead horses, because it can be the case that a newbie can actually offer new insight that nobody's thought of before, and pass the hand of healing over what was once assumed to be a corpse. - Hey, Maybe Avon Shot Blake's Clone! - Was Blake a Freedom Fighter Or A Terrorist? Should Blake Have Destroyed Star One? - Avon Was Mad (No He Wasn't) - Was Travis only following orders? Hot Topics ========== One topic which is pretty much guaranteed to start the fires burning no matter how nicely and calmly people may start the discussion, is slash. If you don't know what slash is, don't worry, since you probably don't want to argue about it either. An oldish summary of the pro-slash position from Susan Beth can be found at <ftp://ftp.lysator.liu.se/pub/blake7/misc/slash.defense> A summary of the anti-slash position is at <http://www.katspace.com/b7/slashsum.html> Another topic which tends to set the sparks flying is Horizon, the biggest and oldest B7 fan club. Or, more specifically, its Coodinator/Treasurer/etc, Diane Gies. I'm not going to reiterate it here, that would just stir people up again. Any topic can raise the temperature if it is pursued obnoxiously enough. There has been steam coming out of ears over - whether Deliverance is Sexist - posting style - con reports - religion just to name a few. But don't let that scare you off, we're generally quite calm and rational... Signs that a thread has gone on too long at too high a temperature are - posters start repeating themselves (worst case, reposting earlier posts of their own) - postings degenerate into a "he said, she said" dissection of why what so-and-so said was insulting. INTJ? MBTI? Huh? ================== Once upon a time, someone first brought up the idea of figuring out the Myers-Briggs (personality) Type Indicator for each of the characters. It was mentioned briefly once before, but the topic truly exploded in February 1998 when Adam Fuller posted this -- <http://tezcatlipoca.algonet.se/cgi-bin/getbyid.pl?id=21161> Much discussion ensued, and many people went off to <http://www.keirsey.com> to take the personality tests there to figure out their own type. Of those who took the tests and actually reported back, the majority appeared to be either INTJ or INTP types (and, oddly enough, the consensus was that Avon was either an INTJ or an INTP). This probably explains why the posting style of the list appears so unfriendly -- half of us are closet Avons. Some people are sick of this topic. Others remain fascinated by it. Penguins? What's that got to do with B7? ========================================= The connection between penguins and B7 can only be explained by the one who discovered the sinister conspiracy in the first place. For some reason, Calle seems to think it was Una McCormack, but the rest of the world blames it on Neil Faulkner. <http://homepages.tesco.net/~N.Faulkner/blakes7/darkheart/darkheart.htm> Except for Neil, who blames it on Alison Page. Acknowledgements ================ Thanks (in no particular order) to Penny Dreadful, Calle Dybedahl, Neil Faulkner, Una McCormack, Tavia, Mistral, Steve Rogerson, Ophelia, Andrew Williams, Sandra Kisner, M, Harriet Monkhouse, Jacqueline Thijsen, Wildean, Harriet, Carol McCoy, Susan Beth, Tiger M, Sandra Kisner, Carolyn for additions, comments and corrections. Where To Find It ================ This FAQ-ish thing can be found on the web at <http://www.katspace.com/b7/lyst.html> and posted on the Lyst once a month. Wed May 23 01:06:00 EST 2001

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Re: [B7L] OT Response to Rita Part 2
by Rita d' Orac 23 May '01

23 May '01

...I've replied to this one offlist too. ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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H&H: Blake
by Susan Beth 23 May '01

23 May '01

NOTE: all quotes are from "The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines." I'm leaving a lot out - most of which applies, some of which doesn't. If you want the latter, well, buy the book. It's interesting. ;-) -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Blake is "The Chief." "The CHIEF is a leader. People instinctively look to this man for their answers. He is a man who seizes control whenever possible. Active, dynamic and strong-willed, he urgently needs to fix problems and produce results. He rarely takes time to build consensus or garner support - not unless he is forced to in order to achieve his goals. He expects people to line up and follow his directives unquestioningly." "His powerful personality often forces others to align themselves with his plan, and he usually wins the day even if all the details have not been pinned down and discussed." Under virtues they list: "Goal oriented - give the CHIEF something to aim for and he keeps going until he reaches the target." "Decisive - Bring a dilemma to the CHIEF and within minutes he has come to a conclusion about the best way to handle it." "Responsible -- When he accepts a task, he follows through until it is complete. He never doubts that he can accomplish the job." Under flaws: "Stubborn - The CHIEF sometimes becomes so focused on the mission before him that he loses track of when a cause is lost. Obstinate to a fault, even when someone points out that the battle is over, he continues to fight." "Dominating - Being right can be a burden, especially when no one listens. Irritated when decisions are not made right away, the CHIEF responds by trying to yank everyone into his corner. He sometimes bullies people into following him. After all, he is the one going in the right direction." I forgot to mention before, each Type is divided into two 'styles', slightly different ways it could be expressed. Blake falls into the "Conqueror" style: "He will go outside the parameter of the [establishment's] acceptable if that is what is required in order to achieve his aim. If challenged, he is amused rather than chagrined.....Once he set his course, he is determined to win - at any cost." Susan Beth (susanbeth33(a)mindspring.com)

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Re: [B7L] I don't believe it
by Jenny Kaye 23 May '01

23 May '01

"Deborah Day" wrote > >Three whole digests All about vegetables!!!! > > and not a single snarky thing in it with > >incomprehensible things about camouflage. Only incomprehensible to those who don't want to listen. > > Posts about Blakes 7. These posts have nothing to do with B7. > > Am I on > >the right list? If you're a SLASHER, yes. > >This is fun!! Who for? Please note: that there has been a lot of people talking about "vegetables" on Lysator today. Three of the chief culprits have been Leah Rosenthal, Steve Rogerson and "Evil" Annie Wortham. However, of the sixty or so emails so far, 98% of them come from tagged SLASHERS. Now think to yourself, why are there so many SLASHERS running around talking about "vegetables"? Two reasons 1/ There is no way that I am going to be able to answer sixty emails, 2/ There is nothing I can say about them anyway, except the above, over and over again. This is a SLASHER list, run by SLASHERS. Please leave and join a proper B7 list now. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Calling the Prez (was: Federation political hierarchies & comparisons)
by Sally Manton 23 May '01

23 May '01

Stephen D wrote: <Anyone like to speculate why Avon didn't get in touch with President Jarriere and let him know who his brilliant new commissioner was?> He did, he did, but after the third ... "I'm just no' following you, Mr Avon," he gave up :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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trolls
by Deborah Day 23 May '01

23 May '01

This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --------------------------------------------------------------- Just out of interest, what exactly is a troll (in the flame sense?) I only know the sixties things with hair that recently made a comeback as things to go on the end of pencils but obviously there is another more specific meaning here. Debbie

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Re: OT Response to Rita Part 1
by Rita d' Orac 23 May '01

23 May '01

I have replied to this message offlist as our discussion is off topic. ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Blakes7 May 2001