Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: slash (not much shorter)
by littles＠lycos.co.uk 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Mistral wrote: > When I stumbled across the existence of slash and was trying to puzzle > out the attraction - particularly the 'by women, for women' aspect of it > - I postulated to myself that it might have something to do with having > one's two favourite male characters all to oneself (as opposed to having > to share them with another female, even a female character). I think you've hit the nail right on the head there, Mistral, which explains also why the depictions in slash do not so much resemble actual gay relationships, as a straight relationship with one chararacter cross-gendered. Shane "Avon, you were my only friend..."--Blake

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RE: [B7L] Slash examples for Fiona
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Betty wrote: >(There's been a lot of complex A/B fic in "Fire & Ice" over the years >(along with a lot of simpler PWP stuff and more than a few examples of >what I tend to consider somewhat oversentimentalized romantic stuff), >but I'd have to go back over my stash of zines and re-read things to >remind myself which stories particularly appealed to me that way and >why... And, while I wish I had the time to do that ('cause it sounds like >fun!), alas, I don't.) As someone who went through her Fire & Ice collection last night in a similar quest, I'd say the oversentimalised romantic cliche-positive stuff is in the majority in those (F&I) zines I've purchased. And quite a bit of the rest is [wonders how to put this delicately and fails miserably] shall we settle for light bedtime reading ? Forbidden Stars 1 and 2 (from Judith Proctor) might be a better bet for a one-off trial purchase to my mind. And there's some really good stuff in no 3 too. Judith's policy means that they dont have explicit art either, which may or may not be an advantage, but certainly makes them easier to read on trains, planes &c. >Unfortunately, there isn't really a terribly large amount of B7 >slash on the web, and while much of what is there is IMO quite good, >not all of it really qualifies as "complex" in the kinds of ways we're >talking about. I'd tend to agree with this assessment. Stuff with much of a plot tends to go to zines, so stuff online that's really good is often (though not by any means always) from old zines, the Oblaque stuff being a case in point (and the Oblaque typesetting is a joy of itself). Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Atomic war
by Mac4781＠aol.com 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Joanne wrote: > The Barmy Army are a group of rabid British cricket fanatics. They can be > told apart from some rabid Australian cricket fanatics only by their accents > and their tendency to sing. How the latter aspect fits into Harriet's > Galactic Test Match scenario, I don't know, but it might explain the music > being played aboard the Space Princess. Or the song that was sung on the prison ship heading for Sardos. And from Harriere: > A bunch of people who travel overseas to support the England cricket team, > and then sit in the sun drinking and chanting "Barmy Army" ad infinitum. Chanting and singing.... This is not what I observed at Lord's. Is it a condition that only strikes when cricket fans go abroad? Hm, getting this back on topic, sort of, I'm very much looking forward to the Redemption Cricket Match report. But I don't want to make you feel guilty; please take your time and write it up when it's convenient. Carol Mc

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Fan Qs
by Mac4781＠aol.com 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

The nomination form for the 2001 Fan Qs is now available on line: http://members.aol.com/mdiawstcon/fanq.htm Carol Mc

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Twinkletoes Avon (was hijacking of slash thread)
by J MacQueen 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

>From: "Fiona Moore" <nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk> >What *is* it about you people, Avon and ballroom dancing? [snip] >In "Mission to Destiny" his tussle with Sara is visibly an attempt to >tango, >you can tell by the way he holds on to her hand... Well, that's all right then, seeing as professional ballroom dancers tango. So I've heard. I can't even remember how to waltz... Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Slash and Random Killfiling
by littles＠lycos.co.uk 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

I started to write this, but somebody'd better cc it to Annie, since it looks like she's killfiled me too. Crikey, if this keeps up she'll have killfiled the whole lyst by next week... > In a message dated 3/6/01 7:47:30 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > wilsonfisk2(a)yahoo.com writes: > << > We are not looking to prove that they are > > homosexual or bisexual just that > > that possibility is not excluded. > > It is not specifically excluded, but that is > becase > the thought of this interpretation never > crossed > anyone's mind. >> > And you know this... how? Unless you can claim > to be the director, the > editor, the actors, and the writers all rolled > up into one, you have nothing > to base this statement upon. Certainly nothing > to make a 'case' with. > Annie Annie, m'dear, I'd like to quote to you something from a post of 06-03-2001 00:06. ------ :)! I'd just like to quote what Chris Boucher does say, in a December 1992 DWB interview (Issue 108), in response to the question "Was there ever an attempt on behalf of the writers to develop a progressive, ongoing relationship between Servalan and Avon, or between among of the regular characters for that matter?" "No, and this was quite deliberate. Because with a drama series [as opposed to a soap--FM], it should be possible to show any of the episodes, apart from the first and last, in any particular order. So really, from that point of view, it would be essential to try and keep the relationships between the regulars as simple as possible. Occasionally we would suggest that one or other of them would have romantic feelings towards a person outside of the group, but then that was convenient, because once the episode was over, you never saw them again." Or, to put it another way, Blake's seeming lack of interest in Jenna was not an attempt to make the character's sexuality ambiguous, but to avoid the potential plot complications of a developing relationship between principals. Similarly, though, it rules out homosexual relationships between the characters, because the same rule would apply. Now, the second quote, taken from a tape recording made for the same interview (quoted with permission of the interviewer): "I tried to make sure that you could pay your money and take your choice, that you could see what [Avon] did either as a idealistic or totally selfish and cynical.... (Q. but he did save Blake on a number of occasions?) I don't think-- well, there should have been the development there that you could begin to suspect that he did have sort of feelings for Blake. Uh-- not *those* sort of feelings, you understand, but friendship. Brotherly feelings, or whatever, and the possibility of them should have been perceptible. But I would hope in most cases it should have been possible to justify what he did on selfish and or psychotic grounds." ------ That post was made by Fiona Moore. Just goes to show, Annie, that when you killfile people indiscriminately, you miss the argument. Shane "Avon, you were my only friend..." --Blake

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Re: [B7L] impressionable kiddies and mixed zines
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Neil: >But what if the parent promised the kid that s/he could read the zines once >parent had finished reading them, or even ordered a batch of zines >specifically for the kid - only to snatch them away from eager young hands >on the grounds that they were unsuitable? ....&c &c I just consider this all so hopelessly unlikely as to be a spurious reason for the ghettoisation (is that a word?) of non-gen fanfic -- at least in B7 where the show isn't actively being shown much (on mainstream channels at least). >The question is, what do their parents think? Rightly or wrongly, they are >the final arbiters in deciding what their children should and should not be >allowed to read. I guess we should stand aside and let the Lyst parents speak. Parenting is *not* in my skill set. >But I would say that genzines are sanitised precisely >because they are differentiated from adult zines. There is a lot of >*potential content* that might find its way into 'gen' fic but doesn't, >because gen has come to mean U or PG rated (Horizon accepts zine submissions >on the basis of their being precisely that). The separation of sex and >non-sex has effectively straitjacketed gen into this sanitised corner. Indeed. Actually I think that's why ttba got an awful lot of submissions. There's certainly a demand from writers for mixed zines, even if there isn't from readers (which remains to be seen -- my first print run has all now disappeared, but then I had an awful lot of tribs). >There are good reasons, I think, to keep adult and non-adult apart. Some >people, though probably not many, only want to read adult. A larger number >want to avoid adult. If you put the two in one zine, you are at the very >least losing readers who want the non-adult but won't touch the zine because >it has adult content. The publisher loses sales, while some readers lose >out on stories that they might otherwise have really enjoyed. I only want to read adult. I just interpret that as adult, not *adult*, if you see what I mean. There's a lot of people in the world just like me in this regard, but I'm not sure whether or not they are also B7 fans. >I think it remains viable to segregate adult from non-adult fiction on the >basis of sexual content, but I think there is also a case for distinguishing >between non-adult suitable for young readers and non-adult slanted towards, >ahem, 'mature' readers. The latter is not very common, though. I'd say most of ttba fell into the latter section, but not quite all, I guess. >It's a standard component of shop-floor argot, applied indiscriminately to >anything and everything (or everyone), so commonplace that any kind of >pejorative meaning can only be construed from context. I think I've only heard the word spoken once. (And that was in a deliberate attempt to offend / embarrass me.) But then shop-floor to me means shortcut between one lab and another, or between one office and another. Tavia

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Possible pre-Series Conditionings of Vila, Jenna and Soolin ; Was Re: Slash
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

(snipped context) Fiona wrote ... I've actually yet to see evidence that Jenna, Vila, Soolin or Avon were conditioned before the series began ... David writes Vila tells us his past when he introduces himself from Way Back Vila: I'm Vila Restal. Blake: Where are we? Vila: In a transit cell. Blake: I don't understand. Vila: You're on your way to the penal colony on Cygnus Alpha. Or you will be when the prison ship's refueled. Try to look on the bright side. It must have something. None of the guests have ever left early. In fact, none of them have ever left at all. Blake: Why are you going there? Vila: They didn't give me a choice. I steal things, compulsive, I'm afraid. I've had my head adjusted by some of the best in the business. But it just won't stay adjusted. David Vila went through conditioning before the series began. Have you considered the possibility that the vision Zen took from Jenna's mind in the early stages of salvaging the Liberator may have been auto-biographical? It occurs to me that it is so, but it is possible for Jenna to have been present at her mother's interrogation. from Duel Jenna: Oh, I wasn't clever enough, we none of us were. The Federation has beaten us all at least once. David Jenna admits to having been defeated, which I take to mean captured, interrogated and then conditioned, but not necessarily to the extent that Blake and Vila were. In the scene with Ro in Horizon, Blake stays awake but Jenna passes out. There is also the question of why she was not made mutoid, but whether that argues for or against conditioning I cannot say. As for Soolin, she, on the other hand, would not regard herself as having been defeated / conditioned, except perhaps by Dorian. DC, who is feeling for British Fauna

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Re: Channel 4
by Harriet Monkhouse 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Una wrote: >2 November 1982. The first programme shown >was 'Countdown', and the first Countdown >Conundrum was 'highlight'. Please don't ask > me how I know that. How do you know that? Harriere

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Re [B7L] PWP (porn? what porn?)
by Harriet Monkhouse 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Leah wrote: >You are attributing a value judgement on the word > 'natural' in this topic of discussion which does not exist. But, as you acknowledge a little later, the word "natural" has been used so frequently to convey a value judgment when discussing sexual practices that it is unwise to assume that no one will perceive one in this context unless you flag your intention very clearly. Harriere

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Blakes7 March 2001