Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: [B7L] Slash
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/6/01 11:29:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, wilsonfisk2(a)yahoo.com writes: << Again you are misrepresenting what I said. I did not say that pornography had nothing to do with sex. That would be ridiculous, and I invite anyone to check back through what I've posted to acertain that that was not what I said. What I said was that they are seperate but connected. << Well yeah, you did. You repeatedly asserted that pornography and sex were not the same thing. If you meant "the ACT of sex", you never said so. I'm glad to see you've come 'round. >>A photpgraph of the Eiffel Tower is not the Eiffel Tower. But they are related objects. Got it?<< Of course I do. That was exactly the kind of analogy I was using in my last post. >> Just as I can go to a website now and read a pornographic story, but that isn't having sex.<< Well obviously, but that was never the subject of our debate. I never stated anywhere to you that the topic was about 'having' sex, or said that fans who read slash or porn are having sex, somehow, by the act of reading it. My point was, as always, that porn is about sex, and to some, sex is about porn. Your latest paragraph represents a change of subject. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Slash and Random Killfiling
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/6/01 6:47:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, littles(a)lycos.co.uk writes: << That post was made by Fiona Moore. Just goes to show, Annie, that when you killfile people indiscriminately, you miss the argument. >> Looks to me as if all she's done is make a wise value judgement. Glad to see it's had the desired frustration effect. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re:slash
by Murray 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Fiona, >However, I still think the balance of available evidence does rule against >racism, or overt racism anyway. As I said to Dana, Dayna's race is seldom >remarked on and when it is, it's not in a fashion which singles it out at >all for denigration *or* approval; neither she nor her father give the >slightest hint that they have suffered racial persecution (Hal Mellanby is a >rebel, but visibly not a Black Panther); Dayna *does* pass on Helotrix >without comment. You can then, of course, raise the paucity of Asian/East >Asian/Afrocaribbean officers, gentlemen etc. in the Federation, but to be >honest, that seems to be the case for the entire galaxy, even independent or >rebel planets/outposts-- and may be more evidence of past than of present >racism (much as the fact that there are fewer Jews today in certain European >countries than fifty years ago gives evidence not necessarily of modern, but >of past antisemitism). We're back to the old negative-evidence argument, and >I suppose that depends on where you stand on whether not seen=none or not >seen=possible (and which, incidentally, goes for homophobia as well, since >we don't see evidence for or against). I agree with you on this, as I have always felt that the Federation, whatever its other faults, did not discriminate on racial or sexual grounds. Indeed, it could have made a virtue of this in its propaganda, contrasting its racial and sexual equality with past states who didn't do this, despite calling themselves democracies. None of the opponents of Servalan opposed her because she was a woman; and I certainly heard no comments about her being unfit to rule due to her sex. Regarding the Mellanbys, Hal's attitude towards the Sarrens is that of cultural, not racial superiority; and Servalan dislikes him for political, not racial reasons. >However, the fact that it was the Programme Guide that misled me is an >interesting one. The Programme Guide is therefore not canon; a point I'd >agree with. But what other "official" written materials are not canon? Trevor Hoyle's three novelisations spring to mind. They are not regarded as canon, though they contain some information not in the episodes that fanfic writers might find useful, such as the assertion that Blake worked in the Engineering Division prior to his arrest in _The Way Back_. Murray

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Re: [B7L] Modes of engagement
by Ashton7＠aol.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/6/01 8:32:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, tavia(a)btinternet.com writes: << It might be worth pointing out that there are B7 fans not on Lysator (shock horror) and indeed there are fans on Freedom City who deliberately haven't joined Lysator (or who mainly lurk on Lysator) for a range of reasons, including, I think, that they find the habitual mode of discourse frightening, exclusive or just plain dull. As an ex-molecular biologist-cum-virologist, who hasn't written an essay since she left school and knows precisely no politics, sociology, or the like, 'you' sure frighten me at times... >> Thank you, Tavia. That was basically my point. Of course, the list exists for talking about B7 the series and B7 the fandom. I was not advocating not talking about the series or even advocating that those who want to "write essays" stop doing so. I say, let 'em have it. It is the apparent insistence that anyone else who dares to join in the conversation must be willing to submit to "grading" and being told they must "make a case" as if they are in a court of law that I find silly. Hey, that's me. If others think it's okay to have people on a mailing list tell them that they aren't allowed to give their opinion on the series or make a comment on a thread unless they can submit an essay on the subject, that's they're own business. For myself, I find that kind of pomposity deadly dull. Annie

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On the road again
by Julia Jones 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Sorry to inflict this on the 80% who have no interest, but after Redemption I can't remember exactly who *does* have an interest, other than most are on the Lyst. My travel plans have just had to change at very short notice. I'll be returning to the US in early April, about three weeks earlier than originally intended, and my itinerary for March has changed. Any of the Americans and Australians who asked if I could play postman - I definitely don't have room in my luggage for more than one or two items, and if you want things posted from the UK it'll need to be organised soon. Ditto any of the Brits/Europeans who want to buy the zines and/or Barbara Paul novels that have been keeping me amused on long flights. My email access is going to be intermittent - I'm staying with various members of the Manchester Lyst contingent for the next few days, but will be modemless for a week after that, so email me soon if you want to be certain I'll get a chance to read it in time. Use the personal address julia.jones(a)jajones.demon.co.uk as I will be filing unread large chunks of mail to the address I use for the Lyst - I downloaded 182 messages this morning... -- Julia Jones

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Pages Bar on Saturday
by Steve Rogerson 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Just a reminder that a bunch of us are goihng to see Jacqueline's play in the Saturday matinee this week and are going down to Pages Bar in London afterwards if anyone wants to join us. At the play will be Rob, Paula, Ika, Nicola and I, and Una is turning up at Pages at about 7.30pm. Let me know if you are coming and we'll look out for you. If you need directions to Pages Bar, drop me an email. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Returning to the rebellion...
by Kanna Ophelia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Returning to Blakes' 7 fandom after a long break, I'm kinda amused to find the exact same debates going on as when I left... <g> What brought me back? A terrifying awareness that Pokemon (Yes! I admit it unblushingly, I am a Pokefeak)is in danger of moving from my main fandom to my *only* fandom, and a rather scared repsonse that maybe returning to a ghrownup fandom would help my bank balance a little... At least the shops aren't filled with cuddly stuffed Vilas and Soolins - actually, that might be worth the expense. :) Also, sending a friend multiple pictures of Avon, Servalan and Soolin reminded me of how damn much I missed the show - and the level of debate on the Lyst, which I must admit is kinda different to the level in Pokemon fandom <giggle>. So I pulled out my old videos, and here I am, ready to worship Soolin and Servie and adore my sweet li'l Vila once more... I missed the sequins and vinyl most of all, I think. <wipes away a sentimental tear> Ross, can I join the spin list, pretty please? <flutters eyelashes> I wanna respond to some of the points about children and fan erotica, but in fandom in general, so it may be better to do it off list... I don't want to go off topic straight away! Anyway - glad to be back. <hugs all around> XXX Kanna-Ophelia Femmeslash: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/femmeslash The Pokeslash Playground: www.tvheaven.pokemon.com Diversion Tactics: www.geocities.com/diversiontactics --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using One.Net's Mail Man. http://mailman.one.net.au

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BBC 1980s
by Alison Page 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

By a pleasant (and genuine) coincidence, as I read the discussion about the BBC in the 1980's I am sitting next to Chris who worked for the BBC in the 1980s and witnessed these changes first hand. The following is a transcription of my live conversation with him on this subject. A - Say Hello Chris C - Er.. Hi. A - And what section of the BBC did you work for during the 1980s? C - You know already A - Just speak into the microphone please C - Capital infrastructure A - And how did the changes in management policy impact on you? C- We became an independent profit centre, and we had to account for everything we spent, and raise money by charging the rest of the BBC for our services A - How did this effect your working practices? C - Swings and roundabouts really. The BBC had become frankly rather cushy. There was a tendency to do everything in a 'Rolls Royce' style, when cheaper would have been just as good. On the other hand, we stopped seeing the corporation as a joint communal effort and source of pride, and felt ourselves to be in competition with other sections. A (A little bit of politics) - So, a bit like what Thatcherism did, but on a smaller scale C (looks nervous) - Uh... A - Moving on. Several people on the list have suggested that the quality of BBC programming fell during the 1980s. Would you attribute that to the changes you have just been describing? C - Perhaps in part. You have to remember there were two other forces at work at the same time. The government put a big squeeze on the amount of money available to the BBC, and the number of channels expanded. Channel 4 A - Yes, we already did that one C - Sky, cable... the lot. I think what people forget is that there is only a limited amount of talent available, and it's spread about pretty thin nowadays. A (Keeps reservations on this point to herself for now) C - Remember that a producer isn't interested in quality of programming any more, he's interested in a graph, like this (gestures) That's spend, and that's audience. Right at the top here (points) are quiz shows and sport. A - What about quality Drama? But Chris must go back to his work, and we will leave him there Alison

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Re: [B7L] Re: slash (not much shorter)
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Una: >And even my jaded little eyes shot wide open on >learning of Tolkien slash recently. I gather 'The Silmarillion' >is the preferred setting, since it is darker and you can get >more bondage into the stories. I've only seen LotR slashed and, boy, was some of that squicky... Actually I'm sure I've said this before, but it seems visual sources (film and television) are much easier to fanfic than written ones, especially where the author has a pronounced prose style. (Americanised hobbits trumps Americanised B7 in my anti-wish list...) Tavia

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Re: [B7L] impressionable kiddies and mixed zines
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Una wrote: >You've sold out the first print run? Fab news! But don't let >this dissuade anyone on this Lyst from demanding another >print run so that they can get their own copy. Umm, yeah, you can see why I never got that great job in marketing... Being in possession of the methods of production in a fairly literal sense, I intend to do 5-copy print runs to demand. Tavia ttba: http://www.viragene.com/

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Blakes7 March 2001