Blakes7 November 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

65 participants
273 discussions

Re: FC: Rumours of Death script on Ebay
by Harriet Monkhouse 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

Joyce reported on the appearance of the RoD camera script on eBay... Meanwhile, you may remember that some of us bought the ordinary script from Chris Boucher, and he then got in a bit of a state because he decided it didn't have a missing scene never broadcast as he'd claimed. But on closer examination, we discovered there were about 16 lines of Grenlee and Forres which don't appear in the final version, so we closed a deal with him after all. I'm not saying this is totally new to fandom - a couple of us had a vague feeling we'd heard of such a fragment before, so it may well be in circulation. But I certainly hadn't seen it , so presume plenty of others won't have either. It follows on from the (present) end of the first Grenlee and Forres scene. That now goes from FORRES: May I never leave this spot. GRENLEE: That can be arranged, Section Leader. to Avon and Vila discussing arrangements for taking Shrinker down to the cave. In this, F and G continue: FORRES: Major Grenlee? GRENLEE: Mmm? FORRES: What's the President like? GRENLEE: Her own way mostly, why? FORRES: No I mean what's she like as a person? GRENLEE: She isn't a person. She's a president. FORRES: And a woman. GRENLEE: Idle speculation section leader. FORRES: I wonder what makes her so special though? When you think about it there's thousands of men ready to die for her. GRENLEE: Every man needs something to believe in Forres. There are no exceptions to that. It's a universal rule. FORRES: If you say so, sir. GRENLEE: I do say so. Just be grateful you joined the service and you don't have to worry about what to believe in. It's all laid out for you. FORRES: Oh I am grateful, sir. GRENLEE: I mean it. Some men have to find their own faith. FORRES: Tough. GRENLEE: It can be section leader. There's only one thing more dangerous than a man looking for something to believe in. And that's a man who thinks he's found something. (Then back to Avon and Vila.) -- Harriet "Nox est perpetua una dormienda." - Catullus V

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new Barbara Paul short story
by Julia Jones 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

Golden Retriever, the second story featuring reluctant private investigator Callie Darrow, is on the US newsstands now in the Dec issue of Ellery Queen. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, so I don't know if there are any fannish references other than the lead character's name. -- Julia Jones "Science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. It is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - The Science of Discworld

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Re: fanfic etiquette query...
by Isobel Hamilton 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

OK well it certainly looks as though I won't be contacting authors - too many varying opinions I think. But anyone else is welcome to! I do still think that this is a case of one author copying the idea of another, but I appreciate that perhaps it's not enough to be described as plagiarism. I know if I wrote the original and read the other on some other site I would think they had just copied my idea... Susan Beth - you're absolutely right that it does make a fascinating way to compare authors, and good and bad fanfic. Pat's characterisation (and writing and style) is perfect, and the other author's... is... not. Jean - >I have a sentimental weakness for the Avon-Cally "romance that never was" me too - having just been re-watching various episodes I could go on about 100 tiny moments which I'm sure are entirely coincidental! Perhaps I will indulge myself on my website.. However I've yet to find a fic which really appeals to me on the A-C theme (I'm not sure if this is because I haven't looked thoroughly enough yet! And I don't think I'll attempt to write my own..) Sally - >from the website, the second writer has a thing for badly written >Avon-Cally stories I attempted to read a couple of the other ones and basically had to give up, it was sacriledge having two beloved characters speak such things! I see there is an area for feedback on the ff.net site, perhaps it might be worth leaving a speculative comment about the story similarities? Isobel ------------------------------------------ Dayna: Avon why do you keep everything to yourself? Why so secretive? Avon: Perhaps I'm shy. ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Fwd: [B7L] Re: fanfic etiquette query...
by Jean Komatsu 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

This is definitely plagiarism. I agree with Isobel Hamilton that Pat's "Mixed Doubles" is probably the original and far superior. The plagiarized untitled story is a clumsy attempt to repackage the storyline. Let's put it this way, if this were tried in college, writer #2 would be flunked and reprimanded. Actually, I myself took Pat's story as a writing exercise -- I have a sentimental weakness for the Avon-Cally "romance that never was" and tried to finish it. I liked the way it came out, although it's a stretch to imagine the "real" (e.g., TV-based) Avon ever softening even a little bit. I wanted to send it to Pat as a tribute to her, but being a newbie at writing, have been much too chicken to do so. It just sits on my PC; every once in a while I drag it out and 'improve' it with a word change or two. But I would never dream of changing the title or eliminating her name on it. She deserves all the credit for suggesting an interesting possibility twist to the B7 fanfic universe. While I was writing it, in fact, I thought I understood why she didn't finish it. It's never been clear to me exactly how long the period was between the date of Cally's exile and when she joined the Liberator. But even considering how isolationist Auron was and how homophobic the Earth-based Federation had become, it was hard to write believably that Cally was so ignorant of human sexuality. Maybe she was just "all business" when it came to the Revolution! But absolutely, the second author should be ashamed of his/her self. Let us hope the error was made in ignorance, although I rather doubt it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Bonfire night
by Sally Manton 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

Leia wrote: <Well I think technically it's celebrating the *failure* of the attempt and the rather grisly death of the perpentrator isn't it? So maybe it's not so unlikely the Federation would have something similar.> I'm sure Travis would like to spend a fine autumnal evening burning Blake in effigy ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [B7L] Re: fanfic etiquette query...
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

Alison Page <alison_page(a)becta.org.uk> wrote: >I think the two stories show that two people had a similar idea. > >Alison > > 'Duplication' can happen elsewhere There was a 'five minute fiction' story in one of the (UK) women's weeklies in the last fortnight which was a near replica of a 'Tales of the Unexpected' (TV) episode a few years back. Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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fanfic on the lyst
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

Here is a slight variant on the 'Short Stories on the Lyst' from a little while ago - adverts which 'should' exist Galactic Laboratories Unlimited Yes - we construct laboratories anywhere You name it, we do it Unpleasant or obscure environments a speciality - acid seas, toxic atmospheres: we can even bury a spaceship underwater. You ask us, we do it! No request too bizarre. Total discretion assured Prices inclusive of local taxes. Also under the Galactic Unlimited banner: Galactic Residential Unlimited You want an obscure location? We have got obscure locations. We will go half way to the next galaxy to find your perfect location (we have attractive arrangements with Andromeda Residential Unlimited for locations further afield). We are also looking for obscure locations in your area. Best prices paid. You name it, we will consider it. Also Galactic MacGuffin Unlimited Devices to fill any plothole. You name it, we will develop it. Galactic Unlimited. A name you can trust. __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Fwd: [B7L] Re: fanfic etiquette query...
by Sally Manton 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

Jean wrote: <This is definitely plagiarism. I agree with Isobel Hamilton that Pat's "Mixed Doubles" is probably the original and far superior. The plagiarized untitled story is a clumsy attempt to repackage the storyline.> Possibly, possibly not ... but <veg> if so, possibly not even *Pat's* story, but one of the range (with a range of different pairings yet) I've seen the idea used for. It's an adult fic staple, and a lot of the stories tend to be very similar unless very well written. And from the website, the second writer has a thing for badly written Avon-Cally stories, so the inspiration could have come from an A/B or B/J or ... <Let us hope the error was made in ignorance, although I rather doubt it.> Let's be generous shall we? She saw an idea she liked and did try to use it for herself, but simply wasn't skilled enough. Not everyone who wants to create fantasies is good at it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: fanfic etiquette query...
by Isobel Hamilton 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

OK having rummaged around to re-find the 2 fics, it is not quite as blatant copying as I first thought, so I'll give you all the urls and you can decide for yourselves. I am sure there is a case of story idea copying though - firstly because I can't believe 2 people came up with this same idea, and secondly because this can't be the same author at work. The styles are about as completely different as they could be, plus one is on a homepage with background about the author and when she wrote the stories etc, and the other is just in a general fanfic archive (with the dire intro - 'It's just a quikie. It's another Avon/ Cally one im afraid. It will take you about 5 mins to read so please do (it would be nice if you arrived it too...kiss kiss, pretty please!)' ) The homepage version (and I am certain the original) is at: http://www.debchan.com/pat/doubles.html And the far inferior version is at: http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=228682 (fanfiction.net can sometimes be *very* slow to access...) I'd be interested to know what you all think! Isobel ------------------------------------------ Dayna: Avon why do you keep everything to yourself? Why so secretive? Avon: Perhaps I'm shy. ------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Re: fanfic etiquette query...
by Tigerm1019＠aol.com 07 Nov '01

07 Nov '01

In a message dated 11/07/2001 6:54:37 AM Central Standard Time, isobel19(a)hotmail.com writes: > The homepage version (and I am certain the original) is at: > http://www.debchan.com/pat/doubles.html > > And the far inferior version is at: > http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=228682 Thanks, Isobel. I've looked at both stories, and I don't think there was any actual plagiarism. The basic idea of both stories is a fairly common one in SF or fantasy series fanfic, as Susan Beth pointed out. It's a fairly obvious way to get two characters together who aren't obviously involved in canon. So I think it's more a case of two writers using the same idea, one far more effectively than the other. Tiger M

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Blakes7 November 2001