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5511 discussions

RE: Re: [B7L] Re: Original crew of the Liberator
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 18 Feb '02

18 Feb '02

"Marian de Haan" <mariandehaan(a)chello.nl> wrote: >David wrote: >>A Blake would go fight someone else. A Jenna would make the ship her home. >A Vila would run somewhere far away. An Avon would sell it intact to the >Federation.< > >But only after making a thorough study of all its systems. In fact, I don't >think he'd ever come to the point of selling it. He'd plan to do it, yes, >but then always come up with a reason why now's not the time :-) > >Marian > > I think what Avon 'wants' is not a bolthole, but the knowledge that he #can# leave should he want to - and the lack of this affects him in S4 Jacqui -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Re: Novelisations (again)
by Jurgen van de Sanden 18 Feb '02

18 Feb '02

Jacqui suggested that I could ask people to do one or two novelisations at a time, which I thought was an excellent idea. Who would like to novelise 'Bounty', or both 'Bounty' and 'Deliverance'? _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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Re: [B7L] Re: Original crew of the Liberator
by Marian de Haan 18 Feb '02

18 Feb '02

David wrote: >A Blake would go fight someone else. A Jenna would make the ship her home. A Vila would run somewhere far away. An Avon would sell it intact to the Federation.< But only after making a thorough study of all its systems. In fact, I don't think he'd ever come to the point of selling it. He'd plan to do it, yes, but then always come up with a reason why now's not the time :-) Marian

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Re: Original crew of the Liberator
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 18 Feb '02

18 Feb '02

Jacqui asked Would the crew who 'bailed out' of the Liberator before Our Heroes reached it have been Altas or what? David I reckon they were Altas and guardians from the System. I can see Zen, the Altas and the black faceless guardians swanning into a war zone, but I can't see a crew that had salvaged the DSV II deliberately entering a war zone, except maybe a Tarrant. A Blake would go fight someone else. A Jenna would make the ship her home. A Vila would run somewhere far away. An Avon would sell it intact to the Federation. A Gan would offer trips around the Galaxy either to passengers or of cargo (I view him as a porter on the Star Queen before limiting operations). A Cally would aim to destroy Federation installations. There were two countries in the forties of the previous century that fought a great war, a massive affair. They are not so dominant now, having been replaced by the English-speaking world (for a time). They had systems like that of AltaWorld. The Western one had a fear of the Eastern One but the Eastern one feared above all its citizens seeing what life was like in the other. Soldiers that were captured by the Western and later released back to their native land were sent off to the Gulags because they had seen too much. Consider the requests for information the Alta makes of Blake from Redemption State the circumstance by which you came to be aboard Deep Space Vehicle II. State the astral location in which you found DSV II. State any further information you have regarding DSV II. State any further information you have regarding - regarding. It knows what the System knows, and the System has already read Zen's auto-log. The Alta doesn't care whether Blake lives or dies - it doesn't want to test Blake or improve him - but it does trust Blake to give honest answers. It wants corroboration of Zen's story so that the System can go and pick up the Alta crew that has seen too much. This is another argument in favour of the war the London encountered being a genuine war. Otherwise the System would have redeemed its DSV much earlier. It had to wait until it was strong enough again to attack the Liberator in precise places. Jacqui The DSV/Liberator seems to be too far away from the System for there not to be autonomous crew members for handling unexpected events. David If Star One can govern the Federation over massive distances, and System technology is superior to Federation technology, then the System can govern the DSVs over large distances. In Redemption, the two craft that attacked the Liberator so precisely were under the control of the System. If the System could exert control over that distance ("halfway across the Galaxy"), and it could control the consciousness of the Altas, it can exert control over Altas anywhere. It would take a war to break the linkage between Zen and the System, and between the Alta-crew and the System, and that is what is shown on London's screens. Orac knew System post-war rebulding was coming to an end, hence it could make the prediction of the destruction of the sister-Liberator in the vicinity of the System. from Redemption Avon: There is a command code programmed into every system. Key that code, and the computers will only respond to orders from source. You can be sure the System would have designed its DSVs in such a way as to prevent manual over-ride of the keyed command code. And if someone like Avon came along and bypassed Zen (as he did in Breakdown) the System could implement back-up procedures before the Alta-rebels onboard became too independent. There are three arguments in favour of autonomy. It may not necessarily have been true at the time the London encountered the Liberator that the System could exert such control over such long distances. As a result of the war, perhaps, the System decided to exert greater control over its Altas, and developed or improved a technology to accomplish the goal. Zen is a gentleman; the System is not. And the Alta had to touch a glass dome to receive data, and silver terminals on the head, too. Jacqui Also could Cygnus Alpha be outside the Federation's formal area of control - the prisoners being used as 'settlement fodder' - which is why Servalan et al do not refer to 'pesky alien battles' within Federation territory. David There is alot going on in Cygnus: the penal colony on or around Alpha; the battle on the way to Cygnus; the uncharted area around 61 Cygni (Killer); the Black Hole, Star 40 or XL, from which Belkov draws power (Games). The Federation has Inner Worlds and Outer Worlds. Space Command would rule the latter, the Civil Administration the former. Maybe on the border between the two there is no clear authority inside the Federation. ... Here is a fictional narrative you might be interested in. There were three independent planets: Altan three, four and six. They were all at war. On Altan six, a new cell had been developed: the Tariel cell. Around it its inventor designed a new System for a new Peace. One of the builders of the System, Trensor, feared its potential for peace, its power to make males into faceless guardians and females into imprisoned puppets. He even discovered such early model guardians and altas, proving his hypothesis horribly correct. He implemented that tried and true idea: the Gene Bank. He purchased a small craft and four guardians. He placed the Gene Bank on the craft, and also the historical data of his race in the language of the race. The four guardians he programmed to attack any life form that may be a threat to the Gene Bank. Then he cryogenically froze the four guardians inside the hold before launcing the craft into the vast cosmos. In time the System conquered all three inhabited worlds of Altan's sun. Its guardians became faceless and wore black. Its altas became sexless and wore blue. The System also developed Deep Space Vehicles. One of those DSV's lost contact with its creator and went on to encounter Terrans, a strange people, and the Gene Bank, a relic from its distant past. Although the Terrans had activated the ship's computer, Zen was unhelpful in every way. It began by saying things like: No information can be given. There is room. There is life support for a, for a, limited, a limited period. It is in, in, insane. Then Zen blew up the teleport system and refused to tell the Terran computerist how long it would take to repair. Zen further refused to manoeuvre the DSV around to bring the projectile in. After the projectile had been manually docked by the Terran crew, the computer transfered atmosphere to the hold but only because the pilot Zen had bonded with was in the projectile. She was the first to wonder where the projectile had come from. None of them completely pieced it together but one came close to realising he was on the wrong track when he said: "Either they were headed for a civilized destination where they expected a friendly reception or we are missing the point entirely." He then went on to mention a way to learn the name of the planet of origin. He hooked Trenson's data bank into the DSV's computer. This too was resisted by the ship's computer and the fact did not go unnoticed: "I am still waiting for the decoders to work out the notational system. It is taking rather longer than I thought." Another of the Terrans came up with part of the story: "He has been asleep for centuries. Then, he wakes up in a strange place not knowing what is happening, nor why." And he mentions the limitations placed on the DSV's computer probably because he is himself limited. It is to him that the ship's computer reveals more Basic decoding of projectile's auto-log is now complete. Occupants are identified as programmed guardians. They are conditioned to eliminate any life form which could be a threat to the brood units and genetic banks contained in the rear section of the projectile. There are four guardians. DC

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Men In Black
by Dana Shilling 17 Feb '02

17 Feb '02

Toward the end of the play, Hamlet gets shipped off to England but never arrives because an attack by a pirate ship allows him to escape and sneak back to Denmark. We don't hear much about the pirates (other than that they treated Hamlet "like thieves of mercy") or their ship, so I like to imagine that the fifth act of Hamlet occurs just before Harvest of Kairos... -(Y)

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TWB , Guilt, and Story Arc (long)
by Dana Shilling 17 Feb '02

17 Feb '02

I think I brought this up before, but it's gone very quiet so I'll mention it again. By putting together The Way Back and Voice from the Past it's possible to piece together the sequence that first Blake was arrested for his revolutionary activities, mind-wiped, and spent a period of time as a law-abiding citizen until his second arrest, which resulted in another mind-wipe and his life sentence to Cygnus Alpha on the fabricated child abuse charges. I have a problem with this sequence for several reasons. It's hard to believe that the Federation wouldn't simply dispose of Blake as a recidivist--nobody seems to have believed the charges in the least, and he would be nearly as inspiring an example of martyrdom in exile as dead. (In fact, there would always be the risk that some of his comrades would try to rescue him from Cygnus Alpha, or that he would foment rebellion there.) But my real problem is in structural terms. The second time, Blake isn't trying to do anything subversive; he's just in the wrong place at the wrong time. A plot is more interesting with a human and flawed hero than with a uniformly noble and perfect hero--but it's also more interesting with an active hero (not all of whose actions are successful) than a patsy. I think the show would have been stronger by starting out with something about the Freedom Party, its goals, and operations; then Blake's arrest and mindwipe; then send him to Cygnus Alpha and start from there. That way, it would make the patterns of guilt more interesting: i.e., Blake would have been convicted of the revolutionary activities--he would be criminal but not immoral. A lot of people would put Gan's killing of the Guard in a similar category. Cally is aligned with Blake as a revolutionary, but has neither been charged with crimes nor (for most audience members) been guilty of immorality. At the other end of the scale, Vila, Avon, and Jenna really have committed crimes, although probably most people wouldn't consider smuggling seriously immoral. The Federation itself is an immoral system, but canon gives us Travis' war crimes trial but not Servalan's. -(Y)

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Novelisations (again) & Feds' logo
by Jurgen van de Sanden 17 Feb '02

17 Feb '02

Would anybody be interested in novelizing episodes 11 to 52 of Blake's 7? I've asked this before on the list, but then nobody seemed to be willing to do this (which is understandable, considering the amount of work that is involved). Jill did excellent novelizations of the first ten episodes, and it would be great if somebody finished her work. You can find the novelised transcripts by clicking the following link: http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/halojones/75/blakes/blakes.html Who designed the Federation logo in Blake's 7? Was it based on the logo of the Federation used in Star Trek? They do seem rather similar. Anybody's got any ideas? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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TWB , Guilt, and Story Arc (long)
by Sally M 17 Feb '02

17 Feb '02

Dana wrote: "I think the show would have been stronger by starting out with something about the Freedom Party, its goals, and operations; then Blake's arrest and mindwipe; then send him to Cygnus Alpha and start from there." Possibly they could do this in the Platonic Blake's 7 we all dream of :-) but in practical terms it was probably impossible to keep a several-episode arc going before they even got on the London. (And I've read enough complaints about the fact that we had to wait a whole one episode to see Avon as is - keeping all of the real cast on ice like Cally wouldn't have been a realistic option, methinks). I rather like the fact that these bureaucrats (and remember, they *are* just that, not the series villains) are calmly prepared to go to such horrendous lengths *against* someone who's just a perceived possible threat - as you said, a patsy - and to use total innocents as a convenience (as Servalan uses the Marryatt family - they are all part of the same corruption). I'm not sure the impersonality of the menace would be as effective (for me) if Blake had done anything at all to deserve the abuse. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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FW: [B7L] B7 Movie
by Andrew Williams 16 Feb '02

16 Feb '02

Marian wrote: >With a strong director to keep him in check, Darrow could have made a great >James Bond. I vaguely remember that this suggestion was made by one of the daily papers in 1980 or 1981, when B7 was still going and Darrow was very much in the public eye.

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Original crew of the Liberator
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 15 Feb '02

15 Feb '02

Would the crew who 'bailed out' of the Liberator before Our Heroes reached it have been Altas or what? The DSV/Liberator seems to be too far away from the System for there not to be autonomous crew members for handling unexpected events. (Also could Cygnus Alpha be outside the Federation's formal area of control - the prisoners being used as 'settlement fodder') - which is why Servalan et al do not refer to 'pesky alien battles' within Federation territory) Jacqui -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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