Blakes7 March 2022

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1 participants
78 discussions

None
by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

Hafren's "Heartlands" trilogy: It's acutally A/V, but there's a lot of focus on the (sadly nonsexual :)) relationship between Avon and Blake, including Avon reflecting on what made Blake so important to him. Very angsty.

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

<<I was asked if I would react the same way to an original character who was gay, and I said no, but that I wouldn't like the character as much.>> My memory's hazy, but there's another question I think I asked - would a gay original character bother you as much as a slashed regular character? - and I think you said something to the effect as "Not as much." But I might be confusing a question I wanted to ask with another one that I did get around to asking. <<The discussion … [View More]wandered around a bit, it wasn't just me versus them, that was only a small part of it. And I had things to contribute to the discussion that weren't just anti-slash. Neil had some good questions to ask as a neutral non-slasher.>> I did? That would be a first. << It was also concluded that slash has a huge range, and is read for different reasons by different people. Slashers are more likely to see slashy subtext. In arguing from absence of evidence, neither side will ever convince the other.>> I've had three 12-hour shifts to mull over this (gotta do something while making shampoo tanks for wet-vac hoovers), and I think the only thing that bothers me is the insistence by either pro or anti-slashers that their reading is the only possible correct one. That particular line coming from the pro-slash side bothers me more, but I think that's because they just tend to be so much louder, so much more insistent, and so eager to clutch at the feeblest of straws and claim them as hard evidence. Basically, the pro-slashers just become a noisy nuisance, while the anti-slashers can quite rightly (IMO) point to the thinness and ambiguity of all this so-called evidence, though not so rightly (IMO) claim that this 'proves' that the characters are absolutely straight. I agree with Fiona that all the strongest evidence favours a heterosexual reading for all the regular characters, at least those who expressed any kind of orientation at all. I agree with Steve that this does not preclude any of them being bisexual, and I agree with Dana (if this is indeed what she was saying) that they may have presented a heterosexual front to conceal their other inclinations. I tend to regard the Federation as rabidly and institutionally homophobic, but that is part of my subcanon, unsupported by the series itself. In fact, I would say that any sexual reading of any particular character can only be regarded as subcanonical, as opposed to extra-canonical. I can't really see much difference between a slash reading of Blake and Avon (who are obviously 'camp as a row of tents', as I think Ika put it at the panel, or straight as a die according to others), or a cyberpunk reading of Travis' prosthetics (as I did in Wit and Wisdom of the Dead). The only real difference between the two is the relative importance accorded to the sexuality of the characters, and it's not something I regard as terribly important. If Blake is planting explosives round a Federation base, who cares if he's gay, straight or bi? That's probably my biggest gripe about not just slash readings but het readings too. They reduce the characters to nothing but their sexuality. Nobody, straight, gay or whatever, is that one-dimensional. Adult fic seems to separate the entire universe into Sex and Everything Else, and promptly homes in on the sex. I consider the Everything Else to be not only more interesting but more important as well. Consequently I tend to avoid adult fic not because it squicks me (it doesn't, I'm virtually unsquickable unless animals get involved), but because it's just so bloody *boring*. Neil [View Less]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

> > << (Leah:) Food and sex are two addictions that have something in common, > that set > them apart from addictions to things like cigarettes, drugs and gambling. > They > are natural functions that can not be quit 'cold turkey.' You can live > without > cigarettes, recreational drugs or gambling. If you stop eating, you die. > If you stop having sex of any kind, you are not behaving in a natural > fashion.<< I don't think that "dying/not behaving … [View More]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

>The only implied 'real nookie' was shown in >the first episode between Blake's lawyers, ...who got bumped off almost immediately thereafter. Let that be a lesson to all of us. -(Y)

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None
by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

Dealer, Disco and Dogsbody Well we did it again... =20 Year Before In the year before Redemption, there are high points and low points -=20 will Ron Thornton come or not, can he answer his email, Enable credit=20 card payments via our online shop, start collecting junk in the bedroom. Month Before Junk in bedroom now makes navigation to my side of the bed "difficult", The zines no longer fit their normal shelves, there are auction items and raffl= e prizes, the banner and chaos modelling … [View More]bits. Judith finally finishes=20 Forbidden Star 3 and it goes to the printers along with some others being reprinted so there should be enough of everything for Redemption. Order extra copies of the Inside Story and CDs - all is calm(ish), book trailer. Ron still has not confirmed when he will be arriving, but still says he wan= ts to come. Week Before Junk accumulates, there are unsold SF type Oxfam books making it harder navigating the bedroom, and more boxes. Judith goes to Edinburgh to see Gareth's play (she needs a rest). Kelvin is told to get some B7 figures painted so that people at the con can see them and buy them. Monday Normalish sort of day, though Judith is due back mid afternoon, flight delayed and arrives later. Kelvin is supposed to have painted some of the B7 figures to make selling them "easier" - Nothing ready yet. Took the membership list and formatted it for making badges, printing the simple cas= es - but we do not have any green or purple paper. Kelvin is told to get some B= 7 figures painted so that people at the con can see them and buy them.=20 Tuesday I get up at 5:30 in the morning to go to London for a morning meeting - muc= h to my surprise it is over at midday and I actually get home earlish stoping at a stationers to get Green and Purple Dots and Green paper - no sign of Purple. In the evening, finally find some "Lavender" writing paper at Stap= les - its A5 so all my carefully worked out formats need changing... Eventually finish all the blanks and go to bed at 11:30. Email Linda Knights - sayin= g unless I get the updated prices from her by the morning - her zines will no= t be listed at Redemption. For Judith all is right with the world: Ron Thornton has finally confirmed = and says he will let us know tomorrow when he will arrive. Kelvin is told to ge= t some B7 figures painted so that people at the con can see them and buy them= .=20 Wednesday This morning Ron Thornton emails to say he can't come after all. Judith spends rest of day on the phone. Kelvin is told to get some B7 figures painted so that people at the con can= see them and buy them.=20 I get up at a normal 7am, normal(ish) day at work, borrow the trailer from the company's DIY club and come home. The lounge now has about 12 boxes of zines and half a ton of other stuff when I get home. Kelvin goes off to his college to borrow the Digital Camera - when he gets there someone else had borrowed it 20 minutes before... After he returns w= e go Camera shopping... After a while we select one, that is out of stock an= d then finally after a while end up with another one. In the evening, I finish the price lists which are printed by about midnigh= t. I also print a few extra badges that have been requested, and just before bed= , enable the paying for Redemption '03 on the website, I get to bed around 12:15am, by which time the lounge has about 20 boxes and a ton of other stu= ff. Thursday I get up at a normalish time (7am), and do more packing, the washing up, more packing. We are going to my parents for lunch, so must be out of the house by 10:30, preferably 9:30. Start loading the trailer, the boot and all available space in the car. Bang on time at 10:25 Judith is pushed out of the house - "If you want that file edited put it on a disk - I will fix it when we are there I am *NOT* doing it now". Uneventful drive to Maidstone, and the 3 hours of enforced rest on Judith - this was good. Around 4 pm someone knocks on my parents door "There is a car outside with its lights on is it yours" - it was :-(. Fortunately my brother was also there and the car responded to a jump start, using his car= . 20 minutes later we arrive at the hotel. Judith goes into the hotel to che= ckin and is not seen for a long time. Meanwhile the boys and I unload the car a= nd trailer, one trolly load of boxes, another trolly load of boxes, a trolly o= f cases and junk, more boxes, then the porters offer to help for the last tri= p to the room. It is a good thing we have an executive suite - after everything= is loaded there is as much space left in the room as ordinary rooms! Kelvin - Please paint some B7 figures. A quiet(ish) evening as fans arrive and conversation starts. I see Judith for at least an hour this evening. Friday I get up early, have breakfast and then start on the dealers room - first of all how many dealers, how much space. OK there is lots of space. In ge= neral any dealer that wants it can have more tables (within reason). 3 or 4 trip= s to the room to get boxes and setup the table. During setup at least 20 books = from the Oxfam table are sold - however with all books flat, the table is just a= bout filled. Kelvin gets out the paint for painting B7 figures, finishes a Travis and th= en becomes part of the Tech crew. Open the dealers room - sell, rush, sell, grab, sell, get books, sell, phew= !! =20 The dealers were only open for 4 hours but that was a very very hectic 4 ho= urs.=20 The biggest order was just short of =A3200! The Oxfam table now has books on edge across most of it. At the end I closed the doors and opened a= safe deposit box... An hour or so was then spent in the bar, before going to the opening ceremo= ny and Pub Quiz. Our table won (I got 10 Drazi points) though I only knew a f= ew answers (1 Blake's 7 and all the Harry Potter questions). The Freedom City party started well, but after an hour many people left to = the zine launch event and in the end it was rather empty. Servalan was drinkin= g Creme de Menthe because she liked the colour - she did not really like it. = A brief tour de convention, broke my glasses and got to bed at about 1:30 - Judith? Who's she?. Saturday Up at 8, breakfast, open dealers room and sell steadily throughout the day. More than on Friday, but not as hectic. There are now 3 boxes of books under the Oxfam table, waiting for a brief few nano-seconds of Jud= ith, should she come near the dealers room. =20 Kelvin nearly finishes a Vila and an Avon. I manage to take an order even without a fully painted figure to demonstrate. Sometime last month I got volunteered in to doing another website panel. I then suggested Simon Partridge (of Blakes7.co.uk) as a good person to also be on the panel - they have a good site and I knew from Nexu= s he also would spell out the theme of KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. This was a= much higher level discussion than last time, as many (most?) of the audience had websites. An hour of sitting down then the fancy dress and Caberet. Afterwards I was Vila in Wobblevision, this was fun - I borrowed Judith's Liberator Gu= n, Teleport Bracelet and part of her "Blake" costume. Michael Sheard eats some moondiscs and destroys the set. The Disco was not as good as last time - there was too much dead music that just was not what the con wanted. Perhaps the funniest items were the can-can and the "Tiller Girls" - I hope someone has some photos. Got to bed at about 2:30 am. - Judith? Who's she? Sunday Up just after 8, breakfast open the dealers room. I give up waiting for Judith to price the Oxfam books and for the fanish books put a price on the= m and they start to sell - I don't price up the hard back / non fanish books.= =20 Trade is slower today but only completely stopped during the closing ceremony. Find "volunteers" to sell raffle tickets. Around lunch time suddenly remember to get boys' stuff packed and into our room and them chec= ked out (they are going back with Rob). Get the raffle tickets divided up and shuffled. Start packing boxes. Small rush after the closing and then the first of 4 trips with the trolly to the room. Search for and find our ghetto blaster and take that to the room (trip 5) Just finish, stick my head in the stewar= ds party and pickup a biscuit - "Richard can you put those unused stewards prizes away" (trip 6), Kelvin wants to get his stuff from the room (trip 7)= I thought he took Henry's, trip 8 is to get Henry's stuff. Return to the stewards "party" now 6 people get some food out then some apple juice is spilt over me (trip 9 to change trousers), return eat 3 peanuts - "I missed the stewards raffle can I get a prize from your room" (trip 10), eat a litt= le, then Harriet and I decide to move the uneaten food and drink to Ops and tid= y up after the stewards party (trips 11 and 12). Its now quiet as many are in the "slash debate" however I join a table in t= he restaurant for a relaxed meal - the first since Thursday, with Michael Shea= rd, Ivan and Sasha, the Haslams and a couple of others - nice conversation abou= t music publication and royalties, the effect of foot and mouth on vets (Sash= a is a vet), good and bad conventions, and 1001 other topics, then drift into th= e boulevard for the wind down. The wind down includes spaceships, and monkeys. Richard the Klingon discovers that he can buy plastic monkeys by the pint from the bar. After a while, plastic monkeys are hanging from glasses, in peoples hair, in beards= , and in many other dubious places. Louise's Bagpus and Judiths's Augustus g= et very "friendly". Lots of people give me thanks to pass on to Judith, I eve= n see her for 10-15 minutes. Eventually sleep gets the better of me and I rather reluctantly get some sleep. I am used to jetlag - I can cross the Atlantic= and just carry on, but conlag is far far worse - it lasts for days. Monday This is the day I can take gently (I thought). Up, Breakfast, find the unsold ttbas for Tavia (or at least some of them). Pack the suitcase, boxes= and junk - will it all fit in the car? Natter, goodbyes, hugs, thanks and start bring the stuff down from the room= .=20 Along side Julia's and Kathryn's who are coming back with us, it looks suspiciously large. More goodbyes and it is just us. Pack the trailer and car - no it does not fit - I hope it does not rain on the trip home, as the trailer cover does n= ot cover the edges. Finally we rather reluctantly leave and drive home. Halfway home it starts to rain... When we get home we jump, empty the trailer tip all the zines, books and junk out and sort into dry (quiet a lot), damp (most of the rest) and wet (a few zines and books) - the result is nothing like as bad as the trip to Redemption '99. Collapse and have a cup of tea. I am not going to= say we were tired, but I was last to bed at 9pm... Tuesday, Wednesday Unpack, sort, organise, sleep. Thursday The house is beginning to look habitable. In a week or so life will be back to "normal" for six months, until the build up to Redemption '03 start= s... --=20 http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ [View Less]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

Despite fanfic, I fear our crew had to get by on showers, poor things. There is a canonical reference to Avon thinking about something "while I was in the the bath" and Tarrant says that Vila can have a "hot tub whether he wants one or not" after cleaning out the glycolene tank. Anyway, considering the size of the Liberator, you can put anything you want on there, certainly bathtubs. I wrote a story about (inter alia) Blake's, Avon's, and Jenna's first night on the Liberator. The first thing … [View More]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

"That doesn't change the fact that other fans WHO WERE ALSO AMONG HIS INFORMANTS over the years *did* have problems with it." And if some of his *informants* were unhappy over the way he'd treated them, that must mean that Jenkins did/failed to do something that an ethical researcher wouldn't/should do. The thing is, I believe Leah meant what she said to be understood as: "That doesn't change the fact that other fans WHO WEREN'T INVOLVED IN THE STUDY over the years *did* have problems … [View More]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

character. Apart from anything else, given Avon's observed low tolerance for what he sees as unintelligent behaviour, it is hard to believe that he would ever have felt affection for a fluff-headed female who gushes over him -- but one can't place too much weight on that, since men have been known to be susceptible to the most unlikely love-objects. However, in previous scenes Sula has come across as highly competent, intelligent, ruthless, cynical and sharply articulate -- one might almost … [View More]see her as a female counterpart to Avon. She herself says "We were well matched." I'd guess that she, too, is accustomed to thinking of herself as emotionally invulnerable; that Avon found a weak point in her armour that she has long since believed to have hardened over again. I assumed that when she comes looking for Servalan and out of the blue finds Avon -- and however intellectually sure of success she may have been, she must have been running a pretty high charge of emotional adrenalin in any case at this point, poised as she is on the brink of pulling off a successful coup -- I think she panics, fatally. I see her actions as a textbook example of guilty behaviour. Even if she still loves him -- especially if she still loves him -- she is in an absolutely impossible position. Instinctively she tries to throw up a smokescreen; to distract him physically and emotionally, by embraces and demands; to give him no time to question the version of events he had been fed, that he had always believed. Imagine a child caught unexpectedly with some forbidden item in her room. She jumps up and rushes to put herself between her mother and the evidence, chatters loudly and too fast, tries to catch the mother's gaze, drawing attention to herself and away from the prohibited object. It's instinctive -- and the mother, of course, at once knows that something is up because the behaviour is so unnatural. I assume that the Anna Avon used to know would never normally have behaved like that in public, or even in private. I think her very desperation tips off Avon that something is wrong. In a way, Avon possibly gets less of an emotional shock when they meet -- after all, he's been thinking about Anna almost constantly over the last few days, even if he does believe her dead, while we can be pretty certain in the light of her recent priorities that the thought of Avon has taken her totally unawares. Emotional turmoil in Avon does seem to manifest itself in degrees of weirdly passive shut-down, as witness his behaviour after killing Blake and his actions with Servalan in a few minutes' time after Anna's death; but I'm not sure that's what we're seeing at this point. Behind the apparently numb facade, Avon's mind is evidently racing away, analysing the unbelievable as he stares at her. He is wary and taken aback, first by her apparent resurrection and then by her off-balance behaviour. He knows something is wrong almost from the start. By the time the masks are off at last, it is far too late for a lovers' parting. But as Avon himself recognises, in trying to kill him she is more 'honest' -- more the clear-headed, resolute woman he must have known -- than in all her over-urgent protestations earlier. -- Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie == [View Less]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

<For me, killing Blake is one step too far (the same if Avon had killed Vila). Without extenuating circumstances, this is just more than I can take from him.> and Neil: <A death is a death is a death. Who killed whom is immaterial.> True in the moral or existential (is that the right word :-)?) sense. Untrue (no matter how beautifully John Donne said it) in the emotional one. The death of someone - even a fictional someone - one personally cares about *does* matter more on … [View More]that level than someone one doesn't (whether an unknown innocent on the evening news or the cannon-fodder on Gold.) That's a part of being human. As Ellynne said, that step was one too far for her; and for me too, as well, truth to tell. To repeat something I said on FC a couple of months ago: suppose they hadn't been able to get Gareth, and instead it had been Jenna in that tracking gallery. Would the emotional impact have been the same? For me, much as I like Jenna, nowhere *near* it ... any more than that little shuttle trip would have had as much emotional impact had it been any of the other Scorpio crew there with Avon. <What makes Avon so special? What makes Blake so special?> Only the fact that I have an emotional commitment in both of them, and see them with a powerful one in each other, but that's enough. <Avon killed plenty of other people through the course of the series. Come to think of it, so did Blake.> Absolutely. But if Ellyne* (and - as I think you've all noticed - I) sees the Avon-Blake and Avon-Vila relationships as central ones, it does assume far more importance than when Avon shot Tynus or Travis. And Blake was innocent of betrayal, unlike Anna (and we all saw what killing *her* did to him. Given that I consider Blake as important to Avon *as* Anna, something I don't expect everyone else to agree with, Id expect the impact on Avon to be even greater than at the end of Rumours - see below). My own opinion is that firing was *not* a rational decision at all. Had he been thinking even semi-clearly, he would have been far better off using Blake as a shield against Arlen and then a hostage; but he was shooting *at* the pain as much as at the man (see Avon's face as Blake falls and he stares down at him to me it looks like he doesn't even understand what he's done. Then he freezes, not even glancing round as the rest are shot around him). But that is only my view, and goodness knows there's a *lot* of room for other interpretations in that scene. <I have always seen that as a case of fannish wishful thinking.> Sorry, Neil, I *have* to answer this frivolously ... sure it can be. But there's nothing wrong with thinking wishfully if I want to., true :-? (I suppressed it when writing my history thesis. Fanfic ain't history thesis's.) Ellynne: <An Avon who has knowingly killed Blake has destroyed something essential about himself. Whatever Blake symbolized to him - hope, idealism, selflessness - and whatever part of him (however grudgingly) connected to that is dead.> and Neil: <No matter what happens to him, Avon carries on.> I don't see these as at all mutually exclusive, and I agree with both. Avon - if he survives - *will* carry on because he doesn't really know how to do anything else, but not at all as the same man. I've always liked a line from one of Bryn Lantry's stories (paraphrased because I've packed my collection up at the minute): "For six months I thought I'd beaten my own prophecy, until I came and looked on his living image. All that I ever was that was worthwhile I see in you, and I never see those things in a mirror. So I did die with him. Essentially." Look at the changes from late 3rd to early 4th series, where he had the Rumours/Terminal/Rescue blows to deal with. The Avon in Power/Traitor/Stardrive is far harsher in voice and manner, more clipped and almost artificial (let no one blame the acting :-)) than he was earlier. And even after he thaws a bit (Headhunter/Assassin), it's still there. He was *hurt* by the tragedy, and he never really recovers (for even more 'proof', watch Redemption/Shadow, then any 4th season episode; there's a *lot* of difference between what he was and what he became). My view of Avon is someone who cares little or nothing for the majority of people, when he does care, it runs *really* deep (five days in an interrogation cell and the start of Terminal being rather hard to explain otherwise); killing an innocent friend, no matter how one could justify it, is going to be bloody difficult to live with. And yes, for me at least, the fact that it's *Blake* makes even even more traumatic. For Avon *and* for me. He'll live with it, he has no choice. But he won't get over it. The pain is never going to go away. <Though there is much to be said for a PGP scenario in which Blake survives and the two can be reconciled in some way.> Agreed, with the proviso that I always prefer that it takes more than 30 seconds for Blake to forgive and/or forget ... :-) Seriously, most of my favourite PGPs are centred around just this point. Of the two finding what can be salvaged from the mess and that it's worth it. *PS - Ellynne - I'm not trying to speak for you here, if I'm wrong about this, feel free to tell me. I'm just going by what I feel from your posts, and I could be wrong ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. [View Less]

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by None 08 Mar '22

08 Mar '22

> we've seen of Avon up to this point his > response to her should have been, 'I > am not your Lord and I see no reason why we > should involve ourselves in your > problems.' But, as we saw, that wasn't his > reaction. He felt a kind of > 'sympathy' for Meegat and helped her. Still, it has to be said that it was hardly in his own interests to disillusion her straight away, and that he was better off playing along with her until he worked out whether she could help … [View More]him find Jenna or not. > I'm not saying Avon suddenly became a nice guy > after this ep. Lord knows > that didn't happen. But it did happen in this > ep (towards Meegat, anyway) No, I don't think Avon's actions are out of character for anything we've seen before or after-- if nothing else, it would be a bit odd for Terry Nation himself to write it like this. There are interviews with both him and Chris Boucher in which they state that when writing for Avon that it was always their intention to create two reasons for all of Avon's actions: either totally selfish or totally altruistic, a duality which remained with the character throughout the series. > and I saw nothing sexist about it. 'Sexist' is a loaded term and so one I'm wary of addressing here. Certainly her behaviour wouldn't get her a commendation in *Spare Rib,* but she does achieve the end her society requires (whether that justifies the means is another argument entirely). It must be said that Meegat's society comes across as very patriarchal, but the implications of that are debatable. But I try > not to look at B7 from a 20th > century (or 21st century) western civilization > point of view. From my > interpretation of the 52 eps, I have created > my view of the B7 universe and I > watch the show from that perspective. 'Although it is useful to understand a text's cultural context when making a reading, the paradigms or frameworks of understanding that are dominant at the time of reading will inevitably dominate how the text is understood.' --Lacey, York Notes on *Bladerunner*. In other words, it's impossible to separate the episode from the context in which it was created (1970s Britain), or your reply from its context (February 2001). To argue that your analysis of the episode can only work if the episode is divorced from all surrounding context suggests that the argument would not stand up when applied in context-- and which would in any case make all critical analysis of the episode impossible, as in order to make an argument you have to be aware of possible alternative readings. Which IMO is where postmodernism falls flat on its face. > time). It wasn't til posts became insulting > (beginning with the 'Wolf at > your door' message) that there began to be a > certain amount of resentment at > the insistence that if we couldn't see sexism > in 'Deliverance' we must be > stupid or uninformed. This post was actually her last post on the Deliverance thread, so whoever you saw as insulting you, it can't have been her. > Also, seeing a list member write that another > list member's posts make them > sick is extremely disheartening. First of all, that wasn't what she said, so don't be disheartened. Second, that refers to a dispute which happened after the Deliverance thread was well over, so why bring it up here? Shane 'You may not be drugged, but you're still dreaming.' --Avon [View Less]

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Blakes7 March 2022