Blakes7 March 2001

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96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: [B7L] Kathryn's convention report/slash
by Tavia 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Marian wrote: >My only aim was to bring up one aspect which I felt >had been neglected in the debate, namely the fact that >in writing fanfiction, we are hijacking characters that >other people created. One teensy thought here. Hijacking implies physically taking some object and removing it, with the effect that the object is not available for others to enjoy. However, if I write a piece of fanfic, however bad, about Avon, Avon doesn't magically disappear from all the B7 videos in the world for the duration of my use of him. Regardless of my intervention, everyone else in the world remains free to interpret Avon in any way they please. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Re: slash (fairly short)
by Tavia 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Dana wrote: >Of course, the scriptwriters probably figured that the audience >would be more involved if the hostage were a pretty young woman >than Blake's old granny. Inga has to be the least sexy woman of the four seasons, so I don't think that can be it. Tavia

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Re: slash (fairly short)
by Harriet Monkhouse 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Fiona wrote: >he could have contacted Blake and said "Talk, >or I'll blow up [fill in name of planet here]." As it >was, he didn't. Which suggests that he wanted to >appeal to some element of Blake beyond just abstract >altruism. Or may just indicate that Travis is wrong about knowing Blake better than himself. A lot of things might have lured Blake; Travis picks one which, perhaps, might have lured him. Harriere

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Re: Possible pre-Series Conditionings of Vila, Jenna and Soolin
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Fiona wrote >>> ... I've actually yet to see evidence that Jenna, Vila, Soolin or Avon were conditioned before the series began ... David >> Vila tells us his past when he introduces himself (snipped it just won't stay adjusted) Fiona > OK, but then (leaving aside that Vila seems here to be talking about theft not homosexuality) I refer you back to my original point about resistance to conditioning. David Vila is talking about theft. There is no seeming about it. I see the distinction in your original point: Having been conditioned is different than having undergone conditioning. Since Vila's conditioning did not take, he was not conditioned. I see the distinction. Fiona > Furthermore, if Vila says, as he did in your quotation, that his conditioning hasn't taken, this further suggests that if Vila is gay and his conditioning was (partially or wholly) aimed at instilling self-loathing/homophobia, he has absolutely no reason not to express his homosexuality, and every reason to do so. David I am not arguing for or against the sexual preference of Vila. I think he was not gay. I am simply arguing in favout of the possibility of conditioning, which I admit didn't take in Vila's case. There is something about Vila. David >> Have you considered the possibility that the vision Zen took from Jenna's mind in the early stages of salvaging the Liberator may have been auto-biographical? It occurs to me that it is so, but it is possible for Jenna to have been present at her mother's interrogation. Fiona > But this doesn't suggest that Jenna was conditioned. Furthermore, we see Jenna's mother being interrogated -- not being conditioned (as we have, by this point, already seen Blake being conditioned, we know what it looks like). David Perhaps Jenna was a little girl at the time of her mother's interrogation and therefore the troopers did not bother to remove Jenna from the interrogation. Or there may be other reasons why the troopers would have permitted Jenna to see the interrogation. David >> quotes from Duel Jenna: Oh, I wasn't clever enough, we none of us were. The Federation has beaten us all at least once. David >> Jenna admits to having been defeated, which I take to mean captured, interrogated and then conditioned, but not necessarily to the extent that Blake and Vila were. Fiona > But that, again, is what Neil would call "subcanon." Jenna doesn't say "The Federation has *conditioned* us all at least once." David Since I have no more evidence nor argument to present with regard to Jenna's alleged conditioning, said conditioning is subcanonical, yes. SubCanonical Possibility: There possibly were degrees in conditioning. David >> That Blake and Vila were. In the scene with Ro in Horizon, Blake stays awake but Jenna passes out. There is also the question of why she was not made mutoid, but whether that argues for or against conditioning I cannot say. Fiona > And these prove exactly what with regard to the question of whether or not Jenna has been conditioned? David These prove nothing. Very little can be proven to have occurred in Jenna's past. There is Tarvin, Largo, Avalon and one or two other things that we know about from the series, and that is all. David >> As for Soolin, she, on the other hand, would not regard herself as having been defeated / conditioned, except perhaps by Dorian. Fiona > Who, leaving aside the fact that that's a big IF, is not the Federation. And again, there's no evidence that I'm aware of that Soolin has even been captured by the Federation prior to her association with Avon, much less conditioned. David No evidence at all. I agree with you on that. Thank you for your reply, Fiona. DC

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[B7] FC: Redemption pics and report
by Rita d' Orac 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

I've finally got round to updating my web site for my Redemption report and pics at http://www.vilaworld.com ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [B7L] limiters
by Tavia 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

Jackie asked: >And I suppose there are not a lot of stories you can do with limiters >Any advances on a) They have them b) They go wrong (as in B7?) You might care to try Neil's piece 'A Casting of Swords' in his zine Stadler Link. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Modes of engagement
by Ashton7＠aol.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/8/01 5:36:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, wilsonfisk2(a)yahoo.com writes: << It's, as I said, disengenuous on Annie/Bizarro's part to claim that by simply requesting exactly what you requested above, I am being in some way elitist or excluding. >> For the record, Annie is not Bizarro and Bizarro is not Annie. Bizarro7 is Leah Rosenthal. My id is Ashton7. Annie Wortham

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Re: [B7L] Modes of engagement
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/7/01 6:13:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << Yours is the language of the anti-intellectual moron, the ultimately timorous soul who will not enter into constructive dialogue because he or she is just too damn cowardly to face up to the possible conclusions. Their tactics are old and hackneyed, from diversion through feigned misunderstanding to outright dismissal in the name of 'fun'. You might have done it to others, but you will *not* do it to me, because I am not going to *let* you. >> I must have missed the 'admin' under your title, Neil. If anyone else had spoken to you with this kind of posting, you would be blowing a gasket and insisting that administrative action be taken against the offender. I believe the strength of your very reaction is proof enough of who has the ephemerial victory that seems to very important to you, at every turn. As for your comment about killfiling being an admission of defeat, that's rather funny. I regard a furious obsession over being killfiled as an admission that you can't stand being ignored. Leah

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Birds and Bees
by Ellynne G. 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

All right, a potentially touchy subject, but one I think I can handle in a nonexplosive fashion. Also, I am sorry once again for accidentally deleting the post on this before I could reply to it. Although it really makes the unknown child storyline a _lot_ more difficult to plot, I'll admit that contraception in the B7 future is likely about as close to 100% effective as we're going to see. I would guess most of the women have either a medical implant that time releases a contraceptive or some kind of more direct device blocking the fallopian tubes. A chemical/hormone based implant might be a better argument since it might allow be fixed to allow the women to avoid certain, monthly inconveniences. Cally, who comes from a world that relies completely on artificial reproduction, could actually have some biologic (whether artificial in origin or not) protection. I mean, there hasn't been a child on Auron born outside a natural womb (wait, being taken outside the artificial womg would _be_ being born . . . ) in about a generation. Although, they seem a reasonable enough people to have some kind of back up for emergencies. So, I'd guess Cally is normally (for lack of a better word) sterile without articial intervention, but that intervention is probably not too complex (injection of a single [but unlikely to be encountered by accident] chemical or some such). Jenna, being shipped to a penal colony with limited medical resources and with a major male/female direprency _and_ low population, may have been deprived of standard protections as a matter of course (or, if they relied on medical implants, supplied with only enough to last the voyage). Given the strange environments the crew travels to - complete with an odd assortment of mad scientists and somewhat irrational doctors - it seems likely breakdowns in the system seem more likely to occur and (given its assumed nature) to occur without the women necessarily knowing. Whew. Think I did that OK. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Kathryn's convention report/slash
by Ashton7＠aol.com 08 Mar '01

08 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/8/01 9:41:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, maya(a)multiweb.nl writes: << The recent discussion about slash has left me rather bemused about the blatant disregard for canon and the writers' intent expressed by some lystmembers. In writing B7 fanfiction, we are in effect hijacking characters created by others. It's something I, for one, am acutely aware of, and it makes me feel obliged to keep to the canon, out of respect for the show's creators. As I writer, I'd hate it if someone would take the characters from my books and distort them to the point where they would become unrecognisable to me. And it would hurt even more if they then went on to claim that their version was the way I had really intended the characters to be, and kept ignoring my denials. >> You seem to be saying that you think it's "okay" to write fan fiction (or even speculate about the show?) as long as the writer stays within canon. Anything else is somehow disrespectful. I'm afraid it just isn't that simple of an issue. If you feel that fan fiction outside of canon is disrespectful, than how can you justify writing any kind of fan fiction at all? There *is* no canon other than what we saw on the screen. That's it. That's what we've got. This comes down to splitting hairs, in my mind. It's a situation of "well, if I like it and write it (or read it) it's OKAY." Anyone who sees it differently... well, they're being disrespectful of the creators. BTW, it might interest you to know that Terry Nation was always very interested in fan fiction and often encouraged fans to send him copies of their fanzines when he was still alive. I have a couple of letters from him commenting on some of the zines I published years ago. I don't doubt that other zine editors could say the same thing. He was also very interested in looking at zines at conventions. Terry and the actors were very much aware of slash from almost the beginning of their convention days and they used to make jokes about it. In fact, there are a number of infamous pictures of Mike Keating and Paul Darrow kissing on stage at, I believe it was, DSV. I was on staff at that convention and Keating and Darrow were cutting up, as usual. Sally Knyvette and Jan Chappel actually rehearsed a Bizarro script that Leah and I wrote and were going to perform it at one of the Scorpio conventions (I think it was number 5). Sadly, Sally was being stalked by someone and they frightened her so badly right after the rehearsal that she didn't perform in the cabaret at all that night. I suppose my point is that a) the creators and the actors and all of the other people behind the scenes at B7 really have never struck me as insulted by the creative efforts of the fans (rather the opposite) and b) they really don't need the fans to "protect" them or to speak for them, either. Those of you who don't particularly like slash or adult fan fiction and/or drawings had best not step out on the internet into any other fandoms unless you're ready for quite a shock. B7 seems very restrained in its web presence. In other fandoms, there is an abundance of what is called "cyber art" where photo manipulation is used to put the actor's heads on bodies. You can draw your own conclusions from this point. ;-) Annie

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Blakes7 March 2001