Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

Redemption '01 con report and pics
by kevs McCully 13 Mar '01

13 Mar '01

Hi all, I hope this is the correct method of posting, i only joined the list today! If not, i apologise in advance... Anyway, my Redemption '01 con report and pics are now up at http://www.afterglow.fsnet.co.uk/redempt/thumbs If you spot any errors, pls let me know so i can correct them! Thanks, kevs ===== "Under an Aussie sky..." http://www.southernsky.fsnet.co.uk "afterglow", http://www.afterglow.fsnet.co.uk Kevin C McCully "The world is what you make it". _____________________________________________________________________________ http://store.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Store - The fastest, easiest way to open an online store.

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Re: copyright and fanfic (Was [B7L] Recent slash discussions etc)
by Tavia 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Annie: >It appears to me that US copyright law is very similar >if not the same as international (and UK) copyright law. >Whether or not the trademark laws are also the same, >I have to admit I don't know. I can say, though, that >trademark and copyright are two different things and >you *can not* copyright a character name (or situation). >You can only copyright an individual "thing" in a certain >form. Although there are some protections regarding >derivative works... In the UK, I believe by simply using a name in a given sphere, one acquires a degree of rights to it within that sphere. So, for example, if I chose to trade as a medical writing company called, say, Viragene, hacked up an appropriate website, printed a few flash business cards, and generally said 'hello, my company name is Viragene', I would acquire rights to the name such that someone else trying to use it within the medical writing sphere in the UK would be infringing my prior use rights. I wouldn't even need to register the company, let alone bother trademarking Viragene. It would seem to me that the BBC et al. might therefore be considered under English law to have acquired prior use on say Avon -- when used in the field of 'cynical black-leather-wearing computer genius with a talent for sarcastic one-liners in sf media'. English law would I guess hold because the series was created in England. I think trademark/branding laws differ substantially from country to country. Copyright, as you point out, is entirely different and these days slightly more internationally standardised. >...and that's where you get into the >whole profit/non-profit, commercial/non-commercial, etc. >debate of fan fiction as a whole. Generally, my personal >opinion is that fan fiction, fanzines and fan art qualify for fair use. Obviously, morally speaking, I agree with this, otherwise I wouldn't have produced one. However, I'm not convinced that we are truly legally in the right, merely too small for anyone to bother with. If a fanzine made substantial profit, then the legal side of things might start to have more meaning. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Recent slash discussions etc
by Tavia 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Dana wrote: >Horizon is by definition a genzine. The first story in Horizon 22, >Josie McCall's "Immolation," has a lot of violence. Despite owning rather few genzines, I had a whole list of stories that I wouldn't personally list as gen because of the violence of their content. I do wonder though if I'm the 'violence' equivalent of the 'lady in pink' at the Redemption slash debate, as I regularly walk out of films because I dislike the violence, not to mention the huge raft of films I haven't seen for the same reason, including several that come highly recommended (Alien et al. for starters). I suppose the advocates of violence in genzines have on their side the relatively high level of violence in the series itself, as compared with the at most ambiguous sexuality therein. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Recent slash discussions etc
by Tavia 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Betty: >Indeed, there've been a few pictures in zines ... >that I've found myself looking at and thinking >"Hmm, that's supposed to be Avon, but it's not, >it's Paul Darrow. Artist must have been working >from a picture of him out-of-character or something." >(Ditto for a "Tarrant" picture or two, I think.) >Haven't been able to verify that, mind, but if I >were a betting person, I might well be willing to >put money on it. Well, I'll do you an (off-list) quiz on the ttba non-PennyD ones if you like... Though, as I'm ideologically opposed to betting (well, except as in share dealing, I suppose), we'll have to agree not to put cash on the outcome... Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Semantics (was Kathryn's convention report/slash)
by Tavia 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Marian, Tavia, Marian: >>My only aim was to bring up one aspect which I felt had been neglected in the debate, namely the fact that in writing fanfiction, we are hijacking characters that other people created.<< >>One teensy thought here. Hijacking implies physically taking some >>object and removing it, with the effect that the object is not available >>for others to enjoy. ><<grin> Challenging the wording of a statement when >you can't challenge its content is a well worn tactic. :-) So's using an emotive word for a non-emotive concept :-) --- which is what I was complaining about. Taking your statement as quoted above at face value, it appears to challenge the whole existence of fanfic, which I personally find odd in someone I know to have written fanfic. Do you care to elaborate, so that we can examine the content rather than just the wording? Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Recent slash discussions etc
by Ashton7＠aol.com 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/11/01 9:05:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net writes: << >In no case is any money made out of the > situation. In legal terms, I would guess all are technically illegal. In > fact, I believe that fanzines in general contravene (UK) copyright law > merely by using the character names/situation. Yeah--control of derivative works is an important part of the copyright holder's "bundle of rights." >> Just a note on copyright law. You can *not* copyright a character name or situation. You can only trademark a name... and even then the trademark isn't considered to have been violated unless the use of the name could possibly be confused (by the public) with the original. As far as I know, Blakes 7 has no character names trademarked (and neither do most television shows or movies... Star Wars is one that comes to mind that has character names actually trademarked). It is the very fact that you can not copyright characters and situations that have many fans (some of them lawyers) arguing that fan fiction and the like constitute "fair use." There's a great article out on the web somewhere about it that was written by a lawyer. I'll have to see if I can find it. Annie

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Re: [B7L] Recent slash discussions etc
by Tavia 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Betty wrote: >...there are quite a number of stories in "ttba" that, while totally >unacceptable for a "gen" zine are definitely not calculated to appeal to >those specifically looking for erotica. Which can create quite a >dilemma, I think, for a writer who's looking to get her story out to the >appropriate target audience. Indeed. One story particularly springs to mind in that regard. What bothers me most is that in the absence of mixed zines (and in a climate where one almost gets the impression sometimes that mixed zines are offensive or immoral) such stories simply won't get written. So, in fanfic, one only gets 'Disney' on one side versus 'PWP erotica' on the other, with the stuff I personally like best, and feel is most consonant with the feel of the original show, squashed between the two. >The "ghettoization" of slash does bother me a little bit, actually, >because it lumps a drama- or action- based story in which it's mentioned >in passing that Avon is sexually interested in Blake, say, in with a >highly explicit piece of PWP erotica. Ghettoisation of slash -- particularly versus het adult or violence -- is my main problem. I'd say the fairest approach would be to rate individual stories independently on het sex, slash sex and violence, and target the zine according to the rating of the most offensive story therein -- which is the approach I took with ttba. Tavia

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Warning: hijacking of thread (was Kathryn's convention report/slash)
by Marian de Haan 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Annie wrote: >In a message dated 3/8/01 9:41:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, maya(a)multiweb.nl writes: <rest snipped> Now I've got Annie's attention, I take the opportunity to formally withdraw my submission of Waves of Evil, submitted to Ashton(a)aol.com on May 18, 1999. Ob. B7: what mailing lists would the crew like to subscribe to? Here's my speculation: Avon - anything to do with advanced technology, preferably alien (he'd reason that he knows the human stuff already). Under a false name: gents' fashion and/or ballroom dancing. :-) Vila - lists for discussing the merits of well-shaped, good-legged virgins (but he'd want some pictures to go with the descriptions). Blake - lists set up by fellow revolutionaries. Also possibly a list dealing with a broad range of historical topics. Tarrant - a list for graduates of the FSA to discuss their own brilliance. Jenna - lists about free trading and a fashion list. Cally - a list set up by Auron exiles. (Or is it Auronan, Auronae???) Dayna - anything to do with weapons, especially the "primitive" ones. Soolin - lists for discussing guns. Travis - nothing, he's too obsessed with catching Blake. Servalan would set up her own list (under an alias), inviting people to criticise the Supreme Commander/President. Then she'd hunt down and kill those who do. I can't think of anything for Gan. Marian

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Re: Redemption '01 con report and pics (Una McCormack)
by kevs McCully 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

> Una wrote: > <waves> Hi kevs! Great to have you aboard! Thanks, it should be fun, if i get time to read all the messages...*s* > > Great report, and I love the photos - > Thanks.. > except one... sorry, i couldn't resist..! *grins* kevs ===== "Under an Aussie sky..." http://www.southernsky.fsnet.co.uk "afterglow", http://www.afterglow.fsnet.co.uk Kevin C McCully "The world is what you make it". _____________________________________________________________________________ http://store.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Store - The fastest, easiest way to open an online store.

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Use of Images
by Shane Little 12 Mar '01

12 Mar '01

Annie wrote: Unless Sally had a > contract at whatever convention the pictures were taken at that there would > be no photography allowed she would, as you say, have no right to complain > about the photos taken at a public event. Are you certain that was all there > was to the story? Maybe the photos were bootlegs of ones that Sally herself > did own a piece of (through a deal with the actual photographer or something > similar)? I've seen THAT happen at conventions where a celebrity finds a > dealer selling photos of them and it turns out that the celebrity DID own the > copyright and the dealer (or their supplier) was bootlegging them. Could be that Sally just didn't like the way the pictures made her look. For actors, their bodies are their instruments, their means of making their living. Whether they're hired or not often depends on how they look in a picture. So if she sees a picture which she thinks goes against her image, and might make it hard for her to get work, she'd have every right to ask for it to be removed. A lot of the actors who come to conventions are doing so out of goodwill; whether because they have friends in fandom, or because they like meeting fans, or whatever. But if they start feeling uncomfortable about being involved with fans, they can just as easily refuse to go to conventions. Legal rights and rights to freedom of speech are not an issue here; courtesy to the actors is. And international legal differences can't be ignored. What about that case last year where the French government prosecuted Yahoo for selling goods that are legal in America but illegal in France? And didn't Lalla Ward successfully sue a men's magazine a few years ago over faked-up nude photos of herself? Shane "No good deed goes unpunished." --Avon Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Blakes7 March 2001