Blakes7 October 2001

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54 participants
274 discussions

Fwd: [B7L] Season 4 clothes - why so few?
by Sally Manton 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Nicola wrote: <But what about season 4? Most of them wear only two or so outfits each (I'm taking a guess from memory here) in the whole season. Avon wears black, and seems to have compelled the others to dress in greys (a uniform?)> And Dorian supplied the first lot (one has to wonder why, given that he was planning to feed them to the Thing In The Cellar, he bothered with making sure there were clothes in these people's sizes. One also wonders how he knew their sizes. One wonders if it's really Carnell in disguise :-)) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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FW: [B7L] Character Change & Development - mostly Vila
by Sally Manton 30 Oct '01

30 Oct '01

Dana: <I don't see much evidence of Vila and Gan being particularly friendly--I think it's more a fannish assumption that non-posh people would feel some solidarity when stranded among posh people.> and Nico: <I thought they were friends when I first watched B7, and on re-viewing it this year. Gan looks after Vila on the London and Cygnus Alpha, and teases him about his fear a couple of times. It looks friendly to me.> Pretty affable, yes - it appears to me that they gravitated together on the London after Nova died and Bake, Avon and Jenna vanished. Once on the Liberator, Vila gets on equally well with Gan and Blake, but finds Avon more fun to plague :-), while Gan seems (to me at least) to become more friendly with Jenna. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Cult TV
by Steve Rogerson 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

That was an excellent Cult TV and I'll give a fuller report when I wake up, plus I've loads of piccies to go on the web site, including some nice ones of Jan and Sally. My extravagance was I bid in the auction for the jacket Jan wore in Shakedown, and ended up buying it for 85 quid. I'm mad and I know I am. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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RE: [B7L] Poor Vila - (Was Character Change and Development) - Lo ng
by Nicola Mody-Nikoloff 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

> Leia Fee wrote: > Nicola wrote... > >Or done a runner! Avon trusted Vila alone on Scorpio at least twice. > >Interesting, that - he didn't trust anyone else like that - why? In > >'Cancer' and 'Gold' he trusts Vila to take the ship away and > return in > >it. I'd have taken it, bolted for safety, then got Slave to take it > >back. Why didn't Vila? > > I think showing that level of initiative would be difficult > for Vila. He > may be having a miserable time but at least he's among people > he knows and a > situation he's familiar with. He does get jumpy when he's > left on his own > several times and in _City on the Edge of the World_ Yes, he's certainly afraid of being alone. I much prefer it to unpleasant company, but I've known people who stay in abusive relationships because it's preferable to being alone. I can't understand the motives for such self-destructive behaviour, but I think you're right. > Tarrant's threat to > throw him off the ship proves sufficient to scare him into > going down to > Kezarn. I think it's interesting that Tarrant has only been > around for a > couple of episodes (any guesses on the length of time?) I assume a year per season, maybe a month or so per ep? But that's only what *I* choose to think. And I've always thought it odd that Avon allowed Tarrant to take charge. Mind you, I did read that the part of Tarrant was intended for an older actor (in his 40s), perhaps as a Blake replacement. So maybe the scripts existed with Tarrant in the dominant role, and they only changed it later. > Vila clearly believes him capable of carrying through on the > threat without > the others stopping him even though he's been with them for a > reasonable length of time (a few years?) Tarrant says something like "you couldn't stop me and the others wouldn't" so Vila would assume the others had been consulted and were quite happy to dump him. This also explains why he was so mistrustful he wouldn't swallow the tracer Avon gave him. One of the things I like so much about Vila though is that even at this point of mistrust and fear (though he doesn't actually *show* fear this time) he can still crack a joke. > He's says at one point that he stays with Blake because he > likes him, and I > think (probably against his better judgement) that he did > like Avon as well. > I imagine he found Avon's increasing nastiness in s4 very > difficult to deal with. Agree totally! Avon and Vila enjoyed playing chess and other games, including their verbal sparring, up to Terminal I'd say. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they liked each other, or to say they were friends (as a lot of fanfic has them), but they had a certain appreciation and enjoyment of each other's skills. Note that Avon doesn't play chess or any other game at all in season 4. I may be wrong, but I don't remember it. Nico *** This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. ***

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RE: [B7L] Character Change & Development - mostly Vila
by Nicola Mody-Nikoloff 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

> Dana Shilling wrote: > I don't see much evidence of Vila and Gan being particularly > friendly--I think it's more a fannish assumption that non-posh > people would feel some solidarity when stranded among posh > people. I thought they were friends when I first watched B7, and on re-viewing it this year. Gan looks after Vila on the London and Cygnus Alpha, and teases him about his fear a couple of times. It looks friendly to me. I didn't say they were close friends. I can imagine that they found teaming up mutually profitable before Blake rescues them - Gan has a limiter and isn't that fast a thinker, nor very suspicious. Vila wants protection, and would be a good lookout for Gan, being on constant tenterhooks. Nico *** This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. ***

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RE: [B7L] Character Change & Development - mostly Vila
by Nicola Mody-Nikoloff 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

> After Sally wrote: > <Can't say I recall how many times Vila got hit on the head. > Anyone done an actual head-count?> > > Nico answered: > <Up to the end of season 3, 11 times.> > > Hell, I *really* wasn't watching :-) I knew he got injured a > fair few times > (they all did, of course) but I can't even *place* many times he was > actually hit on the head :-) Admittedly I was counting concussions, and included being knocked out accidentally. You could also include the self-inflicted head injury in his Space City binge! And I did the count as a joke in something I'm writing, so I'm not that sad. I hope! > Vila is IMO the most selfish of the lot, there is *no > one* he would > put ahead of himself if push came to crunch > and genuinely > cowardly: he does, several times and quite sincerely, argue > for deserting > one or more of the others in a crisis. He was genuinely ready > to ditch Blake > - whom he likes - in Trial, and then there's "Jenna ... let's > run for it," Firstly, if I was treated like he was, I'd be pretty selfish too - if no-one cares about me, then I'll have to look after myself. And in 'Trial' he's just lost his only friend, Gan, due to Blake's fanaticism. In 'Volcano', he's quite worried about Tarrant and Dayna, but is ignored as usual. Vila does a fair amount of rescuing, but I guess you could see most as selfish - because he was ordered to as in 'Sand', or needed the person(s) for his survival. Not all though. He follows Kerril after she disappears when he needn't have, he rescues Tarrant on Terminal and tries to go back for Cally, and when Dayna calls for help later on Terminal, he immediately runs to help her (though typically ends up in as much trouble in the pit) when he could have cowered and whimpered in fear. And I often think while watching SF (and other) series, that most of the characters are unbelievably courageous, to me anyway. I'd be very frightened in most of the situations myself, and I think I'd want to run too (at least I do in nightmares!) I don't think 'd make a good soldier! Vila is one of my favourite SF characters, but he's the only real human in the list - the others are Spock, Data, Garak, Seven, the holographic doctor, G'Kar, Londo, Vir, Aeryn Sun and the other Farscape aliens (except Rigel). There's a pattern, maybe because the humans aren't as realistic as they could be. Most of us aren't heroes. Though I think I'd behave better than poor Vila, at least I hope I would! > Vila is one of life's losers - even machinery like the > teleport seems to be > against him (Sarcophagus, Power). Maybe his real tragedy is > that, like > Blake, he doesn't really belong or fit in this time and place > at all ... That he is such a loser is a tragedy. A miserable life that ends miserably. In a way, I think he was almost an adolescent personality in the first 3 seasons, and grew up a bit in season 4, losing unfortunately the better child-like things about him - his bounce, resilience, and cheerfulness, and keeping the worst (fear, selfishness). Nico *** This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. ***

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Avon and empathy
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

Supposing Avon was actually an empath - so he was trying to keep everybody away to avoid overload? Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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speed of light and SF
by Alison Page 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

What happens in 'brightness falls from the air'? I know I've read it but I don't remember it. Hope this isn't too OT. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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RE: [B7L] Poor Vila - (Was Character Change and Development) - Lo ng
by Nicola Mody-Nikoloff 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

Leia Fee wrote: > Well is it any wonder the poor dab is a wreck by the end of > the series? His > luck all the way through is absolutely dismal. Totally agree! > ...he's very very good at > stealing - why did he keep getting caught? His luck has > obviously always > been just as bad as it is during the series. A good explanation! I always wondered that too. Though all we know specifically is the juvenile detention wards (presumably before the arrest at age 14), CF-1 (correctional facility one?), the penal colony he went to at 14 (these two could be the same, as he does refer to CF-1 as an academy, so he was probably quite young), and Cygnus Alpha. > they'd be unlikely to accept "But I didn't really want to" as > an excuse. Though he does try it with Arlen! :-) > *Everyone* on the crew has a go at him verbally right from > the beginning, > even those who aren't usually too hard on him. And in s4 > they all treat him > with utter contempt almost all the time. It's tragic. Yeah, he's a selfish lazy coward, but he also has a lot of good points - he's funny, kind-hearted (he often shows sympathy) and would be great company. If I'd been in the crew, I'd have befriended him. Probably not trusted him, but liked him, poor sod. However I think Blake treated him very well, as an equal even. He never puts Vila down, but treats him with dignity, and Vila responds very well - I love the interaction between the two of them in 'Time Squad' and 'Seek and Destroy', and Vila performs very well for him in 'Avalon' too. I think if other people had treated him properly, he would have responded and become the much braver and better person he was when he worked directly with Blake. I don't recall Jenna being mean - I think she pretty much ignored him. Gan was a friend, and liked Vila, but at least once got annoyed with his fearfulness. Cally was generally sympathetic too, but lost her temper a few times. So Vila would have missed Gan and Blake a lot, and losing Cally was the last straw. I think that in season 4 he was as traumatised and near to breakdown as Avon was. > Tarrant's bullying in _City_ and _Moloch_ make me want to > thump him Me too! > in fairness Avon didn't exactly set a glowing example when > Tarrant and Dayna > joined the crew - with at least two snarky remarks at Vila's > expense within minutes of them meeting him. I've always thought that explained Dayna and Tarrant's attitude. "So Avon despises him - I won't make up my own mind but just go along with it". I don't see Tarrant as a deep thinker, or as having any empathy, and Dayna is young and strong, and hasn't been knocked about that much yet by life; she still has the supreme confidence of the young and tough, she'd hardly understand Vila, or want to. > I think I'd probably want to go and get drunk too. Yeah, I'd have drunk or drugged myself silly too. Or done a runner! Avon trusted Vila alone on Scorpio at least twice. Interesting, that - he didn't trust anyone else like that - why? In 'Cancer' and 'Gold' he trusts Vila to take the ship away and return in it. I'd have taken it, bolted for safety, then got Slave to take it back. Why didn't Vila? Is he more loyal than people think? Afraid to be alone? Terrified of Avon's retribution for betrayal from someone Avon trusts, the great unforgivable crime? Other opportunities for doing a bunk would be on shopping trips, as Xenon base didn't have food in the beginning - they'd have had to do regular supply runs. I'd have tried it - hiding out on a neutral planet and living off the occasional theft, would be much better than the dangerous, terrifying, and friendless life he already lived. Nico *** This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. ***

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Re: Re: [B7L] Orbit, Vila and Avon
by Alison Page 29 Oct '01

29 Oct '01

Another story it made me think of is 'Look to Windward' - the latest Culture novel from Iain Banks. The Culture war against the Iridians finished several centuries earlier, and everyone is trying to forget about the atrocities they committed. Then the light from the stars they blew up centuries earlier, with billions of lives lost, starts arriving at their home territories. So they can literally see what they did. It's using the same FTL travel/nova wave front paradox, as a different kind of metaphor Alison

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Blakes7 October 2001