Re: [B7L] OT Response to Rita Part 1 - Blakes7

21 May 2001

      THIS EMAIL WAS WRITTEN BY A SLASHER PROGRAMMER. I HAVE ANSWERED JUST FOR THE
HELL OF IT.
PART ONE
SLASHER Rita d' Orac wrote:
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Jenny Kaye wrote:
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SLASHER Rita d' Orac wrote:
Wrong - I'm not a slasher
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"Jenny Kaye":
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SLASHER Rita d' Orac wrote:
No, you are wrong:
No, I'm right.
Wrong - I'm not a slasher
Wrong- You are a SLASHER.
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By definition "I'm not a slasher" means...guess what...
"I'm not a slasher!"
No it doesn't. You're on Freedom City, therefore by definition you are
a
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SLASHER.
Wrong - I'm not a slasher.
Wrong - You are a SLASHER.
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As explained to you previously, one is able to be on Freedom City
without
being a slasher.
No, one cannot. That's like saying "one can shag sheep without being a
sheepshagger." You are a SLASHER.
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Do pay attention!
I have done, you are a SLASHER.
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There's this guy in a pub and he says, "I'm really pissed off." And
the
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barman asks, "Why?"
"Look," says the man, "someone who buys a pint of milk and takes it
home,
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that doesn't make him a milkman, does it?"
The barman scratched his head, "No, I suppose not."
"And what if someone put a Christmas card through a friends letter box
to
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save money on a stamp, that wouldn't make his a Postman would it?"
"No," said the barman.
"I shagged one sheep...."
The man's a sheepshagger, you're a Slasher. Get used to it.
Wrong - I'm not a slasher.  Get used to it.
Yes you are a SLASHER, go on, own up.
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> >Subject: [B7L] Re: When "Animals" camouflage and other Stuff
> >
> >
Jenny wrote:
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> >
> >{huuuge snip}
She has made this "huuuge snip" because she doesn't want to > >>
discuss most of the issues I have brought up.
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No, you are wrong:
No, I'm not.
Yes you are.
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Snip was made because I had no comment to make on any
thing you wrote above the snip
See? Told you.
"No comment" means just what it says.
No it doesn't.
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Did your primary school not teach
you basic English comprehension Jenny?
Yes, and a much better teacher told me how to spot bullshit.
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if you or anyone else wants to see that part of your message,

just
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look in the archive.
I just have done. But if you are not going to talk about it...
No, I am not.  If I wanted to comment on any of your posts or any other
parts
of this post, I would have done so.  "I had no comment to make" means
just
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what it says.
It says that you are avoiding the subject. In the same way that you can't
face up to the fact that you are a SLASHER.
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Everyone on Freedom City is by definition a slasher, but on this lyst
there are
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people who are not. It's those people that are
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> > > my concern, the ones you are after. It's petty, it's small
minded, but I suppose it's power of some kind.
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> >{snipped rest of message}
Again, she snipped the rest of this message because she wants to avoid
answering
the issues. That better for you?
The rest of the message was snipped because I had no comment to make on
any
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thing you wrote below that the snip.
See? Told you.
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Thought that went without saying,
That's right. You don't want to discuss it.
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but I guess I overestimated your powers of comprehension once again.
Not at all, but you've certainly underestimated my intelligence, SLASHER
baby.
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My apologies for that.
Thank you, but there's really no need.
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> >Actually no - I'm not a slasher, but I am a member of Freedom
City.
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Then by definition you are a SLASHER.
No, you are wrong: By definition "I'm not a slasher" means...guess
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what... "I'm not a slasher!"
No. It means you are a Slasher in denial! What the hell are you doing
on
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Freedom City if you don't want to read Slash?
I don't read slash.  I don't write slash.  There are plenty of discussion
threads on Freedom City that are not slash stories.
By definition they will all to some degree be tainted by SLASH.
I am quite capable of
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distinguishing slash from non slash
Quite clearly you are not.
and selecting what I do and do not wish
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to
read.
You are deceiving yourself.
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I would imagine it is quite difficult to be a slasher (in denial or
otherwise) if you don't read or write slash.
You are trying to tell me that you are on Freedom City because you don't
read or write SLASH. That is a total farce. That's like saying, "I live in
Nazi Germany, I've got a picture of Adolf Hitler on my wall, I am a member
of the Nazi party. My son is in a youth brigade, my eldest son is in the SS
but I am not a Nazi." Bullshit. That man is a Nazi and you are a SLASHER.
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> >If I see something on that list that I don't want to read, I
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don't read it.
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Freedom City is a SLASHER lyst.
No, you are wrong: It is not.
Yes it bloody is.
No, you are wrong: It is not.
Yes it damn well bloody is. Also how the hell would you know that you
wouldn't want to read something if you haven't read at least part of it?
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Check archives for Tiger's earlier message
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which explains this for you.
She's talking crap.
No, you are wrong: She is not.
She is a PROGRAMMER. She is talking crap.
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> > Apart from a few misdirected email's that weren't meant for
the list, I don't recall having come across any posts that attacked > >>
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individuals viewpoints the way I've seen them attacked here - such
behaviour is not tolerated by the list's administrator.
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That is true. Debate on Freedom City is stifled. That
"misdirected
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email" comment though is interesting. On the surface it seems Freedom
City has a relaxed atmosphere, but behind people's backs they are all
sniping
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at each other. See?
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No, you are wrong:
No, I'm right.
No, you are wrong.
No, I am right.
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Debate is not stifled
Yes it is. You've just stated so yourself. You stated that some people
are
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having offlist conversations where they snipe at other people. If they
can't
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say what they want in the open then debate is stifled.
No, I did not state that it is.
Yes you did.
Please take the time to read my posts
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before
commenting on them.
That's what I do.
I stated that, as in all mailing lists, posts are made
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to
the list that were not intended for that list.  It happens.  People make
mistakes when sending email.  They don't mean it.  They are free to
discuss
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anyone or anything they want to off that list.
Yes but you are also stating here that freedom does not exist on the
Freedom City List. And you are right, it doesn't.
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That is know as
conversation
No, it's known as two faced sniping.
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and it takes place all over the world via different media for different
purposes.
We are talking about Freedom City. Please keep on topic.
I have no interest in conversations list members have outside
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the
list.
Don't believe it. Natural curiosity would make you look. What if your name
was on one of those misfire emails? How do you know they aren't talking
about you now? Do you really know that there isn't some Freedom City
SLASHER sticking the knife in you right now? No, of course you don't. And
the likelihood is that is exactly what they are doing. Those email misfires 
are telling you exactly that. One day your name will be on one and
it'll hurt like hell.
Any accidental "overhearing" via stray emails is simply inadvertent
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eavesdropping and as such, of no interest to me in respect of the topics
of
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discussion on the list.
They are the underlying basis of the topics on discussion. Of course they
are, and I bet you send offlist emails as well about the subjects covered.
Freedom City is a snake pit.
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and I have no interest in
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commenting
on (or even reading) messages accidentally sent to the list.
Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to make them go away, you
know?
I have no wish to deny people the opportunity to converse offlist.
You can do nothing about it. That is going to be inevitable with Freedom
City.
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There is a clearly defined policy for what to do if/when this
happens.
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Yes. Stick your head in the sand and hope it goes away. Freedom City
is
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like
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a duck. It's still on the surface but underneath people are paddling
vitriolic emails to each other like mad. You can ignore if it you
like,
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but
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it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
No, it is the same as for any conversation one accidentally eavesdrops on
i.e.
such conversation is to be ignored.
But they aren't ignored are they. They cannot be ignored. Someone, many
someone's is going to read it. Let's say
SLASHER-X says SLASHER-Y is "a vulpine degenerate", first off, you aren't
going to know that it's a misfire until you have read some of it, and even 
if
you don't read it someone else would. Gossip is the currency the Freedom
City underground thrives on. An email appears calling SLASHER-Y "a vulpine
degenerate" and some people are going to say, "yes, I thought that. That
last email s/he put on list last night was sick." And someone else is going
to think, "Hu, fancy SLASHER-X calling SLASHER-Y a vulpine degenerate?
SLASHER-X is just as bad and SLASHER -Z is even worse. And then there is
another flurry of emails pointing this out. On the surface though you're all
desperately trying to talk about something else. Freedom City is a mechanism
that is turning you all into two faced hypocrites.
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The list policy simply puts into words
common practice within the western world.
Only in some tin pot dictatorship, run by power freaks.
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> >  What I have enjoyed on that list is reading the many
> >different opinions of people on several aspects of B7 that I
might
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> not otherwise have had an opportunity to listen to or discuss
(I
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am
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mostly an active lurker).
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She is now stating that there is debate on Freedom City which
contradicts what she has previously stated.
No, you are wrong:
No, I am right.
No, you are wrong.
No, I am right.
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I never stated that there wasn't debate on the list -
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you did - and I therefore cannot have contradicted myself.
Yes you have! You stated in your previous email that the moderator
actively
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controls the conversations on the list. Therefore nothing the
moderator
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doesn't want on the list is going to be on there. Then you say that it
allows for a free exchange of opinion!
The moderator quite properly monitors all topics to ensure they are on
topic.
No the moderator is there is stifle discussion.
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The moderator is thus doing the job of a moderator.
The moderator is doing the job of a PROGRAMMER.
However, your comments
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above have reminded me that our conversation is in fact off topic.
Going to run away now are we?
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In other words, our discussion is not about Blake's 7.  As such, the
rules of this
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list require us to take this conversation offlist.
Firstly neither Freedom City or Lysator talk about B7, they talk about 
SLASH.
B7 and SLASH are two totally different things. Secondly, if there are rules
for this lyst, where are they? Many of the people here are quite clearly
hysterical, but no moderator is coming in to stop what's going on. Do you
know why? I think I know.
I will reply to any further
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reply of yours to jennycat55@hotmail.com (I have copied this reply to
your
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address) so please feel free to continue this conversation with me by
sending your replies to either rita@vilaworld.com or
rita_de_orac@yahoo.co.uk -
I am posting this reply to the lyst. In answer to your reply which is posted
to the lyst. If you email me offlyst then that's a different thing. Anything
you say to me will be treated in confidence. I'm not like that backstabbing
Faulkner pseudo. I respect other peoples confidences.
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It would be a shame to stop our discussion just because we are no
longer able
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to carry it on in this mailing list.
We can continue on lyst. We are on topic. The topic is SLASH in B7 FANDOM. 
As for
any discussion, what discussion is that? Basically it's just you saying
"Well I'm not a SLASHER" and me pointing out that you are.
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To clarify for you  there is plenty of debate on that list.
Only under the surface and that consists of constant sniping at one
another.
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Or else it's the sort of debate that includes a lot of "IMO"s.
Actually, no.
Actually, yes.
Again, I suggest that you try being a member of that list so
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that you can comment on in knowledgeably rather than in blind prejudice.
It's not prejudice, it's a fact. Anyway, how do you know I'm not a member?
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If it frightens you to stay on it, you can of course remove yourself
from the
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list once you have gained the knowledge you require.
I know about Freedom City.
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I suggest that you try being a member of that list before you
knock
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it.
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Even I wouldn't want to spend too much time on Freedom City. The
programming techniques being used there are extremely powerful.
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Scared of being proved wrong?
No, scared of being turned into a programmed psychopath:-)
If that happens to you, I promise to buy a hat and eat it...
I have no intention of letting it happen to me. You eating a hat is no
encouragement at all.
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> >There are several issues that I agree with you and
Fiona/Shane/Whoever
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on,
Smart. You can see that what Fiona (an anthropologist) Shane > >
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(a
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gay male) and I (???) are saying, come down basically to the > > >
same
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thing, SLASH is a dangerous conditioning device.
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No, I have already made my views clear to this list (check the
archive
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You have made your views clear concerning this lysts use of mind
control
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techniques? When?
No, I have made clear my views on the issues you raised.  As stated in my
last
message, I do not  agree with you that this list uses mind control
techniques.
It does, and you on some level know it. Why else are you too frightened to
discuss these issues onLyst?
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(check the archive
 if youcan be bothered,
I'm not going to go round chasing shadows. If you've got anything to
say
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on
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the issue say it now. Unless you're scared. Are you?
Scared? Me? Nah! - just too lazy to type stuff twice over if I don't need
That's an interesting reaction.
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to.
But since you asked, some my views are as follows:

I do not like slash.

Then why are you on Freedom City?
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I do not care whether anyone else likes slash.

Then you should.
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I do believe that everyone who has watched Blake's 7 should feel free

to
discuss the programme if they want to.
Good. But this doesn't happen on this Lyst or Freedom City. Why do you thing
there are 70 emails in my mail box, almost all by tagged SLASHERS. All
banging on about shit like "If Avon was a vegetable, what vegetable would he
be?
I think he'd be a cabbage because then he'd be just like me!"
Is this talking about B7? Is it fuck. It's a conditioning device, and a very
effective one at that. It's been used over and over again. Can't you see?
Are you so blind?
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I do not believe that any of the regular characters were gay.

Good. None of them were. But you suggest that on here or Freedom City and
you'll get murdered.
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I do believe that some of the one off characters were portrayed as

possibly
being gay.
That's true as well.
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Neither of the above statements influence my enjoyment of the

programme
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in
any way.
Why should they?
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I have lots of other views, but these are general and not related to B7.
If an
issues arises through discussion on this list or elsewhere, I'm quick to
form a
view on it...
But do you dare to argue it out? No. You'd be shouted down, or attacked for
not using an IMO.
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or speak to Shane
I don't know him!
Well neither do I, other than in the context of the posts he made to this
list!
Same here!
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or Fiona)
She's not speaking to me!
Is that just a comment, or are you expecting me to do something about
this?
It's a statement of fact.
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I
don't know Fiona other than in the context of this list (If she was at
Redemption I may have met her, but I don't remember her),
I have no idea whether she was there or not.
so it would be
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difficult for me to help you with this.
I'm not asking you for help. I think that the situation is beyond it, quite
frankly.
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and you will see exactly which
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issues I agree on.   The archives (or any conversation you have
with
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either Shane or Fiona) will prove that I have never indicated in any
way
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that I believe slash is a dangerous conditioning device.
So you have had conversations on lyst with Shane and Fiona about
whether
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Slash was or was not a dangerous conditioning device? Bullshit have
you.
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No, I did not say that I had.
You implied it.
That is the point.  I have never had any
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discussions on that topic, which is why I suggested you look at the
archive
This is barking mad. Why should I look in the archive for something that
isn't there?
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or ask people I had assumed you knew who were on the list to confirm this
for
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you.
Is this some kind of "Wortham/Rosenthal Bastards" mindgame you are playing
here? It has all the hallmarks.
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The point of your looking at the archive was to confirm that no such
discussion took place,
You wanted me to scan through nearly 10 years of Lysator and Freedom City
archives just to find something you say isn't there? This is a
"Worthem/Rosenthal Bastards" mindgame.
therefore I could not have ever indicated to anyone
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my
opinions on whether I believe slash is a conditioning device.
You implied it.
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I don't believe that it is.
Saying that isn't good enough, provide some evidence.
I have been on lists with and around people who are slash fans for
several
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years.
I can see that quite clearly.
During that time, I have changed jobs 4 time and in before being
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accepted for each job I had (and passed) a medical examination.  I was
considered fit in every way.  None of the 4 doctors concerned thought I
had
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been conditioned in any way.
That's because they were looking in the wrong place. Did you tell them that 
you
belong to Freedom City, a SLASHER list that deals with the writing and
reading of sick homophobic fantasies about of group of actors from a 20 year
old TV series? Like hell you did.
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My own doctor has seen me when I had
tonsillitis
and later when I had Bronchitis.
What's that got to be with mental conditioning?
She also did not believe I was under the
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influence of any conditioning.
You asked her? You said, "BTW Doctor, do you think I have been mentally
conditioned by Freedom City?" Like hell you did.
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Since 5 professional doctors failed to see
any evidence of conditioning during thorough examinations, this leads me
to
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conclude that there isn't any conditioning to find.
No, it means that they weren't looking for it. And you're not going to point
it out are you? You're quite clearly in denial about being a SLASHER.
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What evidence do you have that such conditioning exists?
The things I have seen going on here. All this crap about all
interpretations being valid. Attempts by certain individuals to turn reality
on its head. "Elynne G." quite clearly understands anthropology and yet she
sends me an email which contains a number of dangerous and well established
reality altering techniques. All opinions are not valid and to state such a
thing is delusional, or worse.
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By offlist, I simply mean face to face conversations held at
various
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places I have had the good fortune to run into other B7 fans > > > >
conventions, theatre trips, Beer & B7 meetings etc).
Oh right. So you go on a theatre trip to see Gareth Thomas in "Whoops
Where's Me Trousers", then go to the bar afterwards and say to a
fellow
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fan, "Do you think Slash can be used as a dangerous conditioning device?"
And
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they say, "Dah, no." And you say, "Nor me."
Not at all :)  Have you never been in conversation with people offlist
regarding B7?  As I have stated several times, the "slash can be used as
a
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dangerous conditioning device" topic has never come up.
I can quite clearly see that.
I'll be sure to
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bring
it up at the next Beer & B7 meeting - come along and share your views!
It would turn into a fight.
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Yeah, that really sound plausible, doesn't it?
No, it doesn't
That's right it doesn't.
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that's because people don't converse in that fashion.

That's right.
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I thing you need to get out and about a bit more...
I think you need to get of these lysts.
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Of course I haven't contacted you offlist

Is there any reason I should have done so?

How the hell am I supposed to know that?
Well, you seemed to believe that I should have contacted you offlist!
Where the hell did you get that from?
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I was just wondering why you thought I should have done so.
More "Wortham/Rosenthal Bastards" mindgames.
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> > at some time or another with several of my B7 friends (and
that > >includes my B7 friends who are "slashers")
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They are all SLASHERS.
No, you are wrong:
No. I'm right.
No, you are wrong.
No, I am right.
CONTINUED IN PART TWO. I SUGGEST YOU HAVE A LIE DOWN BEFORE YOU READ ANY 
FURTHER.
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