Stephen Date wrote:
--- Jenny wrote:
The limiter is clearly both very rare (we don't
see it anywhere else, none
of the others have ever heard of it before)
They haven't encountered it because they have had no reason to. They are not psychopathic killers. Well not in the sense that Gan is anyway.
Surely if the Federation used Limiters on anything like a regular basis, the others would have heard of it. Vila plainly hasn't heard of limiters in Time Squad and he is pretty familiar with the penal system.
All that it prove is that they are infrequently used, and the person who has one doesn't brag about it. Also:
GAN: It's almost as if Zen has a limiter?
VILA: A limiter?
GAN: Something that stops him from helping us to much. Or maybe it's someone who stops him.
VILA: Gan if you're trying to scare me you're succeeding.
Just because Vila says "A limiter?" it doesn't follow that he doesn't know what one is. He could be thinking, "Oh F**k, a Limiter. And why is Gan talking about it? Could he be a psychopathic killer? Oh, well... I wonder what's for tea."
My guess is that it was an experimental thing,
and that prisoners were
allocated to the experimenters to work on.
Scientists in Nazi Germany were
allowed to carry out all kinds of experiments on
prisoners, and I can see
the same sort of morality working just fine in
the Federation.
A theory not supported by the evidence. Kayn and Renor knows what a limiter is and speak of it in a very matter-of-fact way-- not as if it's something rare. Are they in on the experiment too?
Kayn and Renor are scientists at an experimental research station. Kayn is the top neuro-surgeon in his field. Renor must be good otherwise Kayn wouldn't have him as his assistant. The rules of neuro-surgery apply on earth and on XK-72. It is entirely possible that they would recognise an experimental device.
He doesn't call it an "experimental device" though, does he? They both talk as if it is commonplace.
Incidentally Renor's reaction is not matter of fact, rather it is one of horror.
Horror that such things are used, not horror at discovering that such a thing existed.
It is also worth observing that personality alteration is a developed science in the Federation - witness Blake's persona in "The Way Back" compared to his normal persona in Space Fall onwards. If Gan was a vicious killer, surely they would alter his entire personality rather than just knock out one part of his brain.
The implant does alter his entire personality.
Gan appears to be a rather gentle person, when
not in a combat situation.
That's right. But look at what he's like *in* combat. Grinning, usually.
But to test
something designed to stop people killing,
It manifestly isn't designed to stop him killing.
Surely that is exactly what it does. I forget Gan's exact words when he falls out of the alien capsule in Time Squad but they're along the lines of "Limiter implant...impossible for me to kill".
What Gan says in this scene is very interesting. Reprint the transcript and I'll go through it with you :-)
Later on in Time
Squad when he tries to shoot the alien he is unable to do so.
The limiter stops him. For an explanation see my correspondence with Fiona Moore, April 6th onwards.
In Deliverance he says "When it comes to
killing, remember my limiter implant".
Well he would wouldn't he? To maintain the fiction.
It is entirely possible that after the experiment has been conducted Gan was then sentenced to penal servitude on Cygnus Alpha. After all, once they've established it works they're not going to keep him hanging around.
Well rationalised, but see my comments about the Kayne/Renor conversation above.
Jenny
_________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
--- Jenny Kaye wrote: >
Surely if the Federation used Limiters on
anything
like a regular basis, the others would have
heard of
it. Vila plainly hasn't heard of limiters in Time Squad and he is pretty
familiar
with the penal system.
All that it prove is that they are infrequently used, and the person who has one doesn't brag about it. Also:
GAN: It's almost as if Zen has a limiter?
VILA: A limiter?
GAN: Something that stops him from helping us to much. Or maybe it's someone who stops him.
VILA: Gan if you're trying to scare me you're succeeding.
Just because Vila says "A limiter?" it doesn't follow that he doesn't know what one is.
Maybe not, but it's a reasonable supposition.
He could be thinking, "Oh F**k, a Limiter. And why is Gan talking about it? Could he be a psychopathic killer? Oh, well... I wonder what's for tea."
So if he does know what a limiter is, and later discovers that Gan posseses one we might expect him to show some small concern at the implications.
Kayn and Renor are scientists at an
experimental
research station. Kayn is the top neuro-surgeon
in his
field. Renor must be good otherwise Kayn
wouldn't have
him as his assistant. The rules of
neuro-surgery apply
on earth and on XK-72. It is entirely possible
that
they would recognise an experimental device.
He doesn't call it an "experimental device" though, does he? They both talk as if it is commonplace.
Incidentally Renor's reaction is not matter of
fact,
rather it is one of horror.
Horror that such things are used, not horror at discovering that such a thing existed.
Which means that their use is not commonplace, rather horrific.
Gan appears to be a rather gentle person, when
not in a combat situation.
That's right. But look at what he's like *in* combat. Grinning, usually.
So, he likes a scrap. So does Avon, at least in Shadow and Mission to Destiny. So does Tarrant in Harvest and Rumours of Death. Neither Avon or Tarrant is an axe-murderer, nor IMO, is Gan.
Surely that is exactly what it does. I forget
Gan's
exact words when he falls out of the alien
capsule in
Time Squad but they're along the lines of
"Limiter
implant...impossible for me to kill".
What Gan says in this scene is very interesting. Reprint the transcript and I'll go through it with you :-)
If I get the chance I will.
Later on in Time
Squad when he tries to shoot the alien he is
unable to
do so.
The limiter stops him. For an explanation see my correspondence with Fiona Moore, April 6th onwards.
Not the archives as well ! But the Limiters actions on this occasion are consistent with Gan's account of them.
Stephen.
____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
-
Jenny Kaye -
Stephen Date