Sally Manton wrote:
Jenny wrote: <It didn't say he *had.* It said he dreamt of it when in his prison cell. Which rather suggests that he's criminally minded, and wants to commit crimes. Including violent ones, it seems.>
That's still no proof - none whatsoever - that he was arrested or
convicted
of killing anyone.
Sally, I suggest that next time you read my entire email before replying.
<We don't know the circumstances under which Avon kills the visa seller, and> >Avon at least had a motive. Doran shoots two unarmed people and
jokes about
it-- again, more the action of a habitual killer than someone killing because they have to.>
None of which is relevant.
Is that right?
Avon still killed the man - he says so himself
(and I doubt of even a corrupt judiciary would take 'he tried to turn me
in
as I was trying to buy illegal visas' as a defence) - but his conviction was for something else. Quite possibly, he was never suspected or arrested
for
the murder,
When did I suggest that he was?
and there's no reason to assume that Doran was either.
Except for the fact that murder come easily to him, perhaps?
<A man kills one guard and has an implant in his head (which doesn't even seem to stop him killing, or getting into states in which he might
kill)?>
The limiter is clearly both very rare (we don't see it anywhere else,
none
of the others have ever heard of it before)
They haven't encountered it because they have had no reason to. They are not psychopathic killers. Well not in the sense that Gan is anyway.
and seemingly prone to malfunction - it doesn't work very well.
I think it works very well for what it does.
My guess is that it was an experimental thing, and that prisoners were allocated to the experimenters to work on. Scientists in Nazi Germany
were
allowed to carry out all kinds of experiments on prisoners, and I can see the same sort of morality working just fine in the Federation.
A theory not supported by the evidence. Kayn and Renor knows what a limiter is and speak of it in a very matter-of-fact way-- not as if it's something rare. Are they in on the experiment too?
But to test
something designed to stop people killing,
It manifestly isn't designed to stop him killing.
it would make sense to trial it
on prisoners known to kill - and it's quite in character for them to
target
those convicted of killing state functionaries (police, politicians, troopers) as an added turn of the punishment screw.
Is that right? It also makes sense to conduct this experiment on Cygnus Alpha as well, does it? Where there is no one to actually observe the experiment?
Jenny
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Jenny wrote:
Kayn and Renor knows what a limiter is and speak of it in a very matter-of-fact way-- not as if it's something rare. Are they in on the experiment too?
They're experts in neurosurgery, who should be expected to keep up with the latest developments. We gather from the search for help in Breakdown that such experts are not two a credit.
It also makes sense to conduct this experiment on Cygnus Alpha as well, does it? Where there is no one to actually observe the experiment?
I always presumed that Gan was a guinea pig they'd finished experimenting with.
--- Jenny wrote:
The limiter is clearly both very rare (we don't
see it anywhere else, none
of the others have ever heard of it before)
They haven't encountered it because they have had no reason to. They are not psychopathic killers. Well not in the sense that Gan is anyway.
Surely if the Federation used Limiters on anything like a regular basis, the others would have heard of it. I imagine, to take an analogous example, that everyone on this list has heard of a lobotomy. However I imagine that very few of us have seen one performed or met a lobotomised person. Vila plainly hasn't heard of limiters in Time Squad and he is pretty familiar with the penal system.
My guess is that it was an experimental thing,
and that prisoners were
allocated to the experimenters to work on.
Scientists in Nazi Germany were
allowed to carry out all kinds of experiments on
prisoners, and I can see
the same sort of morality working just fine in
the Federation.
A theory not supported by the evidence. Kayn and Renor knows what a limiter is and speak of it in a very matter-of-fact way-- not as if it's something rare. Are they in on the experiment too?
Kayn and Renor are scientists at an experimental research station. Kayn is the top neuro-surgeon in his field. Renor must be good otherwise Kayn wouldn't have him as his assistant. The rules of neuro-surgery apply on earth and on XK-72. It is entirely possible that they would recognise an experimental device. Incidentally Renor's reaction is not matter of fact, rather it is one of horror.
It is also worth observing that personality alteration is a developed science in the Federation - witness Blake's persona in "The Way Back" compared to his normal persona in Space Fall onwards. If Gan was a vicious killer, surely they would alter his entire personality rather than just knock out one part of his brain. Gan appears to be a rather gentle person, when not in a combat situation.
But to test
something designed to stop people killing,
It manifestly isn't designed to stop him killing.
Surely that is exactly what it does. I forget Gan's exact words when he falls out of the alien capsule in Time Squad but they're along the lines of "Limiter implant...impossible for me to kill". Later on in Time Squad when he tries to shoot the alien he is unable to do so. In Deliverance he says "When it comes to killing, remember my limiter implant".
it would make sense to trial it
on prisoners known to kill - and it's quite in
character for them to target
those convicted of killing state functionaries
(police, politicians,
troopers) as an added turn of the punishment
screw.
Is that right? It also makes sense to conduct this experiment on Cygnus Alpha as well, does it? Where there is no one to actually observe the experiment?
It is entirely possible that after the experiment has been conducted Gan was then sentenced to penal servitude on Cygnus Alpha. After all, once they've established it works they're not going to keep him hanging around.
Stephen.
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