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5511 discussions

RE: Re: [B7L] Episode Winners
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> wrote: >Helen Atkins wrote: > >> I disagree that Avon was a winner in Rumours of Death. > >Indeed, it occurs to me to wonder if it might not be more accurate to >say that there's always at least one *loser* at the end of every >episode, but not necessarily anyone who can be called a winner at all... > >-- >Betty Ragan ** ragan(a)sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ > Does 'anyone' win in 'Blake'? (the Federation don't know who they've 'disposed of') Jacqui -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Gan's woman
by Nicola Mody-Nikoloff 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Sorry if this has been covered before I came along, but why does everyone (incl. the Sevencyclopaedia) think Gan's woman was raped? In 'Time Squad', Gan just says to Jenna that she was killed by a guard. Nico *** This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. ***

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Re: [B7L] Episode Winners
by Marian de Haan 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Helen Atkins wrote: >I disagree that Avon was a winner in Rumours of Death. He thought at the beginning of the episode that someone had been willing to die under torture rather than turn him in.< And knowing the truth at least relieved him of his guilt over that. Despite what he tells Jenna in Trial, I think he is capable of feeling guilt. >At the end, he realised he had never been loved at all. This obviously had a severe impact on his view of himself (ie unloveable)< I can't see that being an issue for him. Avon never gives the impression of caring about what other people think of him. IMO he prefers *not* being loved, because love causes the kind of emotional attachment he seems very eager to avoid. >and of other people (there are no exceptions, no one is trustworthy).< A very safe philosophy, in his case, considering what happens to the few people he *does* begin to trust :-) Marian

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Dalek Empire series now complete
by Judith Proctor 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

I've now got stock of Dalek Empire part 4, which completes the series. I haven't even had time to listen to the latest part yet, but Gareth Thomas (and the rest of the cast) were all very good in the first three parts. It's been an interesting and enjoyable series which raises some interesting questions about whether collaboration with an enemy can be justified. Copies are for sale on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '03 21-23 Feb 2003 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Re: Avon, Ensor and the System
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Jacqui wrote There are several possible reasons for the 'tarriel cell compatible technology' of Zen/the Liberator/the System (Orac has 'no apparent problem' in overriding System computers). a) Independent but parallel development sufficient for Orac to understand. Going by 20th/21st century computers this is 'unlikely.' David There have been several lines in 20th cent. software systems, but now there are few: the minority systems of Apple and Unix; the majority system. It can be the same for B7 hardware. Initially there were several lines but most died out leaving a few only: Tarriel cells, Star One, the System, the Ultra's technology. There is only so much that can be invented in a given area; then the variations merge. Jacqui This implies some communication between the System and the Federation - probably one way as even Servalan/the Federation High Command are unaware of the System. David The previous generation, however, were not necessarily unaware of the System. When Control was placed on Star One, someone somewhere knew the fact. Then the knowledge concerning the location of Central Control died out. Likewise, the knowledge of the System could have died out by the time Servalan assumed power. Jacqui This would also imply that the System is 'not in the direction of' Andromeda/Horizon, or the Federation would have come into contact with it. David I agree with that. As an aside I consider Earth, Horizon, Star One, Andromeda to be in a straight line. Earth is in Earth Sector (Zero), but the other three are in Sector Eleven. From Horizon we see that zone nine is further out than zone eight. Perhaps Earth is in zone zero, Horizon is in zone 9, Star One in zone 17 ("C 17 320 in the 11th Sect."), and M31 the Galaxy, is in Zone 1,000. Jacqui Correlating the information in 'Orac' and 'Redemption' the System's space centre was probably constructed long before Ensor developed the Tarriel cells. David Yes, long before. The complex was around since before the slave's father was born. Jacqui b) The System goes technology hunting (the equivalent of the Chengas?) - the Liberator/DSV2 is one of a series of such ships, but went close to the battlefield to acquire 'equipment' and got caught in the crossfire. David The System was born from war, from its latter stages Slave: The three planets were always fighting or getting ready to fight. Then one of the planets developed a computer so powerful it was able to take over the weaponry computers of the other two: One gigantic System that totally governs the three worlds. Blake: And the System built this as a control centre? Slave: Yes, now there is no war. There were three worlds and a central system. This is similar to the design of the Liberator: a middle hull, surrounded by three lesser hulls. There is an earlier mention of a long war: Duel. Emigrees of Sinofar's and Giroc's race or races from their thousand years war may have had something to do with these things. Except for Keezarn (City), no-one else has teleport, not even Dorian. It seems likely the System is at the cutting edge of technology. Perhaps Zen deliberately hunted for a war to involve himself in. Perhaps he shunned war and attempted to keep out of it. Jacqui c) My previous suggestion that Ensor came from the System, bringing the tarriel cell technology to the Federation. (This might explain why he did not have his mechanical heart replaced - incompatible tissue types.) David It is an appealing idea. He is similar to the slave, and both are seemingly human. I am beginning to like it more and more. He could have brought Avon (See below more about his possible second son). Jacqui d) Ensor (who, it appears withdrew from the Federation so he could get on with his researches privately) encountered an earlier System spaceship with 'tarriel cell equivalent technology' and made use of its technology. Neither this nor c) reflects against Ensor's capacities in making the two systems compatible. David If true, then Ensor is not the inventor of the Tarriel cell. That takes away some of the emotion when he dies, and when his son dies in an earlier episode. Ensor's distaste for drugs ("I can't stand them, myself. Filthy things, drugs") and guns suggests some disagreement between him and his Federation Overlords. Jacqui Any other possibilities? David Muller? Dorian? The Ultra? These are not necessarily probable, though. Further-fetched include: Ancient Keezarn? Auron? Emigrees from Sinofar's race? Jacqui As for Avon - when would he have come from the System (and why?) (snipped late appearance in Federation untenable) If he was a former inhabitant of the system he probably moved as a child (which, if he was 'mechanically gifted' would still enable him to have some idea of the technology he left behind). David Hal Mellanby made a deal with the Federation that allowed him to take Dayna. He adopted Lauren afterwards. Was he trying to replace a second child? If so, was that child left behind on Earth? Is there any possibility the image of Avon's brother in Time Squad was that of Ensor Jr? Ensor Jr. was four years old about forty years ago. He left with his father. Avon is aged, some say, in the early forties. Could he have been an other son of Ensor Sr? If so, was he left behind on Aristo, Zerok, Earth? Jacqui He could also have a strong visual memory - and there is a #very# noticable constellation in the bit of the System's sky we are shown. David It looks to me a little like the tail in Scorpio, which, unfortunately, is some distance from Cygnus, and therefore also from the point midway between Cygnus Alpha and Earth. Jacqui It would be ironic if Avon came from a family which left the System because they disagreed with it, and got caught up in an attempt to overthrow the Federation. David Given Avon's good and bad luck, maybe it is only to be expected. DC

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Episode Winners
by Helen Atkins 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

I disagree that Avon was a winner in Rumours of Death. He thought at the beginning of the episode that someone had been willing to die under torture rather than turn him in. At the end, he realised he had never been loved at all. This obviously had a severe impact on his view of himself (ie unloveable) and of other people (there are no exceptions, no one is trustworthy). _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Re: Six Speculations on Belkov's Survival - Episode Winners
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

(David argued that since every episode has a winner at its end, so Games too has a winner, and Belkov is the winner at end of Games) David >> With the exceptions of Terminal and Animals, every episode has a winner at the end. Winner is defined as some improvement in the life or assets of the winner. Marian > I can agree with most of the list but not with D >> Breakdown - Gan M > He's still stuck with his limiter, so it seems stalemate rather than an improvement. D Gan was suffering on three points: 1. If Avon is right, then the limiter was feeding scrambled impulses into Gan's brain; 2. The Mechanical Doctor said, "Condition must be relieved if permanent brain damage is to be avoided"; 3. Gan was in pain. None of these applied after Breakdown. So I view Gan as winner. D >> Shadow - Bek M > He's lost his sister (as far as we can see his only family member left) and being returned to Terra Nostra territory by Blake makes his chances for survival rather bleak. D Bek would disagree that he was a winner after Hannah's death ("Oh, yes, just another Dreamhead"). He is now free of having to provide for his family's addiction to Shadow, and he is a loose cannon in Space City. Also he knows who the Terra Nostra are and can use the knowledge. For example, if the Terra Nostra caught him, he could threaten to release this information in the event of his death. If the Federation caught him, he could say he has lost his family to Shadow, and that he is fighting Shadow. The admixture of both sides of the law can be used in Bek's favour. D >> Pressure Point - Veron, all Rebels M > Veron has lost her mother along with her whole rebel group. D Oops. I was thinking mythically - Veron becomes the new Earth-Goddess, that sort of thing - since I am writing her mother's Back-Story. Kasabi can have no better death than on Earth and during a raid on Federation Central Control that was. When the story is finished (I have nearly done her father's story), I may raise the issue of Veron again, but few people seem to like her. M > Left behind on Earth, her survival chances seem as slim as Bek's. (Although Kasabi may have arranged for a 'safe house' for her.) D Thanks for the idea - I may use it. Veron is privy to some important knowledge. She could use the knowledge to gain survival in a desperate situation. The last time we see Veron, she is in the Building in the Zone, close to the surface, say, three floors down. There are no troops around Avon: One thing is in our favour: there do not seem to be any security forces within the zone. Blake: None at all? Avon: They don't need them. The defence system is totally automated. It is more efficient than any brigade of troops. And the defence system is de-activated. Troops will come and would capture her if she tarried, but they are in no hurry (See Servalan's and Travis' "eventually"). D >> Trial - Blake, Zil M > Zil dies. To quote Vila: "If that's winning, I'll take losing every time." D Quite right. I was thinking of Zil's children. I should have written Travis. Travis and Blake were the winners at the end of Trial. D >> Killer - Passing Traffic M > I'd add Servalan, since Blake's plague warning prevented her from landing on the contaminated planet. D I missed that completely. Blake saved Servalan against Avons' wishes. That is a worthy addition to the list. D >> Rumors of Death - Avon M > Although he probably wished he hadn't bothered. D He is relieved of a burden. The thoughts and history he was lugging around were a huge burden. He may even have come to feel relieved. Rumours is a gain for Avon (a la Bek and Hannah). D >> Animals - Og (?) M > I'd say the viewers - having managed to watch it through to the end gives such a profound feeling of achievement :-) (Sorry, Una.) D This one disturbs my argument. Terminal can be a valid exception to the rule of winners every episode, but Animals has no special or unusual redeeming or mitigating points that are more important than Terminal. (It is a good programme in itself, by the way.) They messed about with Og and caused him pain, so it may have been a gain for him to die, like Dorian's partner at the end of Rescue. That was my reasoning but it doesn't quite work. Og doesn't really belong on the list. My argument needs a better winner from Animals before it can say Belkov survived. And in any case, Gambit can take the honour. Thanks M and HM. DC

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Avon, Ensor and the System
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

There are several possible reasons for the 'tarriel cell compatible technology' of Zen/the Liberator/the System (Orac has 'no apparent problem' in overriding System computers). a) Independent but parallel development sufficient for Orac to understand. Going by 20th/21st century computers this is 'unlikely.' This implies some communication between the System and the Federation - probably one way as even Servalan/the Federation High Command are unaware of the System. (This would also imply that the System is 'not in the direction of' Andromeda/Horizon, or the Federaiton would have come into contact with it.) Correlating the information in 'Orac' and 'Redemption' the System's space centre was probably constructed long before Ensor developed the Tarriel cells. b) The System goes technology hunting (the equivalent of the Chengas?) - the Liberator/DSV2 is one of a series of such ships, but went close to the battlefield to acquire 'equipment' and got caught in the crossfire. c) My previous suggestion that Ensor came from the System, bringing the tarriel cell technology to the Federation. (This might explain why he did not have his mechanical heart replaced - incompatible tissue types.) d) Ensor (who, it appears withdrew from the Federation so he could get on with his researches privately) encountered an earlier System spaceship with 'tarriel cell equivalent technology' and made use of its technology. Neither this nor c) reflects against Ensor's capacities in making the two systems compatible. Any other possibilities? As for Avon - when would he have come from the System (and why?) There is no evidence that he came from anywhere other than Earth/the Solar System (Gan might, as he habitually wears a different costume to the others - the equivalent of 'regional dressing' now). If he had 'suddenly appeared' a few years before, he is unlikely to have been given access to some of the things he was - the banking system and the teleportation project. If he was a former inhabitant of the system he probably moved as a child (which, if he was 'mechanically gifted' would still enable him to have some idea of the technology he left behind). He could also have a strong visual memory - and there is a #very# noticable constellation in the bit of the System's sky we are shown. It would be ironic if Avon came from a family which left the System because they disagreed with it, and got caught up in an attempt to overthrow the Federation. Jacqui -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Re: [B7L] Directors and Writers
by Sally M 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

Harriet wrote: "Thank you, that felt extremely useful, though I've no idea what for." <gurgle> funny, that's what I thought as well. _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: [B7L] New web site
by Sally M 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

:-) Poor Vila. Lots of fun, Nico, thank you (even if Fearless Leader didn't survive, mutter grumble) I liked the way you got the voices. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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