Blakes7 August 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

51 participants
264 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Sally Manton 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Betty wrote: <My personal theory is that Avon didn't *want* to think of it, and possibly wouldn't have allowed himself to think of it (at least not until the very last moment, if then).> Interesting idea ... yes, I can see that he might not think of it himself. <But once Orac brought it out into the open, Avon was forced to acknowledge it. And once he'd permitted the thought into his head, it would have gone against his entire self-image *not* to follow up on it.> That's a tad too harsh, methinks. I don't believe the self-image comes into it, just the simple truth that he *is* a survivor (if not *quite* first and foremost) and once thrown a lifeline will grab it, if a little falteringly. Notwithstanding the fact that he *has* been warning them for years, and only did what he always said he would do, I think Avon was actually more damaged by the shuttle business than Vila (this is not a belittling of Vila's feelings, but a measure of how badly I think Avon was hurt by it). because in the end his own honesty would say yes, it was the only thing he could do, being him, and no, that wasn't a good enough excuse. Actually, it's an impossible situation - either way he went, he must condemn himself utterly by his own standards afterwards. (yes, yes, I know, :) 'Avon nearly killed Vila, poor Avon'). and later: <And I strongly suspect a lot of that is because he can't stand the guilt he feels when he lets someone who trusts him down (see: Grant, Anna). That and the fact that having to live up to someone else's trust can seriously put one's own skin in danger.> Which is why Blake's insistence on trusting him in Time Squad and thereafter really *doesn't* please him one little bit (yet, once he cares about someone, the lines blur. I think by S2 he does - reluctantly and without admitting it - want and value Blake's trust, look how that temper-driven stab of Blake's in The Keeper *stings*). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake (long)
by Sally Manton 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Carol wrote: <Except if this isn't Blake's base there isn't any reason to keep her there. It's not a good idea to keep her there. Fudging records is something that could bring attention to them.> It's a dangerous game, true, but as I said, this is not a law-abiding planet, and therefore the niceties - the need to keep to the straight and narrow - isn't really an issue. There's no reason to assume that anyone on GP would particularly *care* what happened to the criminals, as long as they were ostensibly out of the way. And I'm assuming that Deva is good, so the chances of getting caught are lower than the risk of taking someone unchecked to the real base. If Arlen turned out to be an honest crook <g> there'd be enough time to take her to a safe house later. <The other point you're overlooking is how and why Arlen got on the base. The Federation used her to infiltrate "Blake's" base.> Yes, and getting Blake to trust her is just the first step in that. And I have no doubt that *Arlen* thought she'd gotten to Blake's base, and so called in the troops. She was just wrong about that (IMO). After all, she may have passed the test process, but she's still very very new - no reason why Blake and/or Deva should promptly sit down and spill *everything* to her. She just didn't realise she'd only got a foot in the wrong door. Then Tarrant arrived and things started getting out of hand ... <But the Scorpio crew appears to have gained a degree of infamy. Belkov identifies Scorpio, Avon and Tarrant without an introduction.> Possibly knew them through his acquaintance with Gerren, who was scheming with Avon (and not quite as bright as he thought he was). There are other cases in S4 where they're not recognised (the dealers in Assassin for one, the doctor on the Space Princess - yes, I know I've said he's an idiot, but Our Heroes went into that clearly expecting no one, drugged or undrugged, to recognise them). <And in GAMES, Keiller explains how he knows so much about them: "On the grapevine, my friend. You're getting to be big news."> :-) Not that I'd accuse Keiller of saying the first sweet-talking thing that came into his head, no way he'd ever do *that* ... <Except he has been spotted, which is why Arlen is there.> But none of the bounty hunters have, or he'd have bben taken before she got to him. <But whether or not Blake is willing to risk his own life - and Deva clearly regards it to be a risk--would he risk Avon and Avon's crew?> As I said, he doesn't know it's Avon. Yes, to be blunt, I think he'd risk it rather than take a chance on betraying the real base (this is Blake, who was prepared to see them all killed before surrendering the Liberator in Horizon). <It would take just one sharp-eyed bounty hunter to make things very messy.> That's a risk they have to take - that's a risk they have all *chosen* to take, both Blake and Deva by working here, and Avon and co by coming here. These people have all lived with the threat of bounty hunters for years, after all. Is it any riskier than taking all those back-stabbing vainglorious warlords to Xenon? Needs must, after all, needs must. <Also, remember, Blake doesn't know *for certain* that it was Avon following him.> <He seems near to certain; certain enough that I can't see him putting Avon down in the midst of real bounty hunters.> The odd thing is, though I'm far more a of Blakey person than I think you are, I *can* (and I think Avon would understand it). He might try to protect him, but until he's sure, there's *no way* he'd take complete unknowns to the real base, or draw in someone who might be an enemy. As the Liberator has to be put before one or more people, so the base has to be put before one person (yes, even Avon). That's the harsh fact of their lives. Have to mention, I don't have a *serious* problem with the idea that Blake's real base might have been infiltrated (heck, look what happened on Xenon, *they* let a traitor in too, and it would make rather a nice repeating pattern if Blake was doing the same thing on Gauda Prime). It's just that I don't see it as *this* base, this way. <From the rehearsal script:> Rehearsal script doesn't count; it remains uncanonical. Of course, point [a] isn't proof in itself that this *isn't* Blake's base, it's just emphasising that it can't canonically be said that it *is*. <There's no indication of that. All of them are careful to use dissembling language, such as referring to Blake as a bounty hunter, because they don't want to slip up at the wrong time, as in when Blake brings in a prisoner.> That's your assumption, you're entitled to it (and it's quite possible that everyone will agree with you instead of me :-)), but I don't see that myself. She sounds both casual and genuine to me. <But Klyn's dedication to duty isn't that of a civil servant; her behavior is that of a dedicated rebel. She doesn't slink away and hide when there is trouble ...> Ummm ... no fair :-) I've *been* a civil servant, and I've met a hundred Klyns. Bad PR to the contrary, a lot of them are dedicated and do 'stay on watch' and try to do the right thing (and quite a few of them are in dangerous jobs as well). I see her as one of the smaller, genuinely want-to-be-respectable-again natives. There's no reason to expect that someone who is working - even in a small way - to clear the planet of rabble is going to be less likely to try to do what she sees as the right thing than anyone else. <The base is obviously well secured. Strangers aren't allowed to wander around unless they've been cleared, which is why we see Klyn question Tarrant.> All of which would be just as true if it were a proto-police base in the midst of a completely lawless community. <If this were a wide open base, she had no reason to stop him.> Didn't say it was. The bounty hunters Deva deals with are quite clearly 'on his books', collect information from him about targets, and are known to *his* superiors, whoever (and wherever) they are (the central computer sends that message making Blake a 'law enforcement officer' - again, an indicator that it's not the genuine rebel base, since would someone as cautious as Deva have the computers there linked up to a central one?) They would therefore be given the location. It certainly wouldn't be advertised freely (so that the real criminals could find and attack it). Tarrant comes in with a registered hunter; Klyn challenges him only when she sees him alone. Makes sense to me. <Or one might say it didn't work because he's about to be dead.> It's about to stop working, true. But that 'beginnings of an army' quite possibly has more than a handful of people (more than five, perhaps? :-)) and for *them*, the procedure worked. <And as I said, Arlen might not have been the first/only agent they employed. Others might not have made it that far.> We've no proof of that, and if in fact it's true, that earlier attempts to infiltrate have failed, that would indicate further that Blake's defences are better than commonly assumed. <There's something else you're overlooking. When Blake goes to Avon, he calls him by name. He identifies himself as "Blake." Now he wouldn't do that in an unsecure base that has real bounty hunters wandering in and out.> There is no one else in the gallery to hear him. The alarm's going off, he's got no time - and in any case, you may recall that I believe Blake goes into something of a state of shock himself when he sees Avon so obviously torn up and stumbles badly from that point on. <Then there's Deva's cry that the base is under attack. Deva isn't running in to warn Blake that the two of them need to make like rabbits and run. It's the entire base he's worried about. Blake's base.> He doesn't say so, just again that 'they've found *us*' which could mean all of them, or just the two of them. We don't know) and again, *the* base is under attack. We'll have to agree to disagree on this, I think, since there's no proof. <And there are Arlen's words; she calls the base "a nest of rebels."> and I repeat from above - Arlen was just plain wrong. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake (long)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Sally wrote: > Easily. For a start, Deva is obviously [a] in charge of the computers, if > not the whole base, and [b] one of the main authorities *on* the base > (remember, Blake ostensibly goes to get his targets - in effect, his > 'orders' - from Deva). So he fudges Arlen's records, tells the other > workers she turned out to be innocent, Except if this isn't Blake's base there isn't any reason to keep her there. It's not a good idea to keep her there. Fudging records is something that could bring attention to them. The other point you're overlooking is how and why Arlen got on the base. The Federation used her to infiltrate "Blake's" base. If this had been a general bounty hunter station, that elaborate ruse wouldn't have been necessary. They could have given someone bounty hunter creditials and sent her/him in to check the place out. Or they could have sent someone in in the guise of a civilian employee--a paper-pushing clerk. But Blake runs a tight ship. The only way they could get someone on Blake's base was to put an officer at grave risk. Maybe Arlen wasn't the first one they tried to get on the base. Maybe others were killed by bounty hunters while attempting to allow themselves to be captured by Blake. > that quite a few of the scummier bounty hunters started out that way too). Per the script it's more likely to go the other way: bounty hunters end up as criminals. This is Blake and Deva talking about Tando: BLAKE: He didn't have a price on him, though, did he? DEVA: It was only a matter of time. > This isn't a proper police station with an eye to the niceties of law and > order - Yet the base is very orderly. > That's between the three of them. No one else on the base is involved. > Notice that Klyn always takes her orders from *Deva*, even if Deva gets them > first from Blake: Deva definitely has authority; he gives orders even when Blake isn't around. In the scene you quote, Deva is the one next to the communicator. > A very *old* very large price., as Tarrant mentions: > TARRANT: Well, it might. There's still a price on our heads from the old > days. > SOOLIN: Not on G-P, there isn't. That's before Soolin learns that law and order has returned to GP. Now there *is* a price on their heads there. > Why should any of the GP people recognise him? He wasn't that famous in his > own right (Shrinker and other Federation officials *on Earth* didn't > recognise him), and much of the information about Blake's people was > suppressed. But the Scorpio crew appears to have gained a degree of infamy. Belkov identifies Scorpio, Avon and Tarrant without an introduction. And in GAMES, Keiller explains how he knows so much about them: "On the grapevine, my friend. You're getting to be big news." Blake was also quick to realize that the Tarrant in the crashed ship was *that* Tarrant. > The worries the crew express are about *Blake* (if he's a real > bounty hunter) selling them. Not just Blake. Now that law and order has been restored, Avon says: AVON: It is the day of the bounty hunter. [cut to close-up of Vila] Thieves, [cut to close-up of Dayna, pan to Soolin] killers, [cut to close-up of Tarrant] mercenaries, [cut to close-up of Avon; he smiles] psychopaths, are as unwelcome now as the farmers once were. > But he's wandering around among genuine bounty hunters without being spotted Except he has been spotted, which is why Arlen is there. His appearance is also rather different because of the scar. But whether or not Blake is willing to risk his own life--and Deva clearly regards it to be a risk--would he risk Avon and Avon's crew? It would take just one sharp-eyed bounty hunter to make things very messy. > (moving away from on-screen evidence, there's also the fact that no one > recognise the damned ex-President, who *also* has a price on her head IIRC. > People just *don't* :-)). She is also recognized on occasion. The risk is there for Servalan, for Blake, for the Scorpio crew. > Also, remember, Blake doesn't know *for certain* that it was Avon following > him. He seems near to certain; certain enough that I can't see him putting Avon down in the midst of real bounty hunters. > [a] There's no canonical proof it *is* Blake's real base (he calls it 'a > base, the beginnings of an army'. Not *this* base.) Chris apparently thought he was giving enough clues that he didn't have to spell it out. He does include directions with that very line to help make the point. From the rehearsal script: BLAKE: (Gestures round) With a base; the beginnings of an army. Blake's body language was intended to confirm that it was Blake's base. > [b] Klyn obviously believes Blake to be a genuine bounty hunter: There's no indication of that. All of them are careful to use dissembling language, such as referring to Blake as a bounty hunter, because they don't want to slip up at the wrong time, as in when Blake brings in a prisoner. And also because the Federation observors are expected. The best way to keep up a pretense is to maintain that pretense at all times. But Klyn's dedication to duty isn't that of a civil servant; her behavior is that of a dedicated rebel. She stays on watch because there's too much activity. She doesn't slink away and hide when there is trouble; she gives a warning and gets shot by Avon. > Similarly, the bounty hunters hanging around and getting their orders are > genuine (and some of them complete scum). We never see any bounty hunters hanging around. The only bounty hunter we ever see on the base is Blake. This is an underground base. Blake uses a random flight program when approaching it. Everything indicates it is a secret location known to very few. > Blake's become jaded and > suspicious, not suicidally stupid ("I'm still alive,") so that completely > rules out this being the rebel base for me. Not suicidally stupid; simply human and capable of making mistakes. He makes many mistakes in BLAKE. Deva tells him he's making mistakes. Blake even admits he's being irrational. So it's no surprise that his plans are a calamity in the making. And it's not as if he isn't taking precautions. The base is obviously well secured. Strangers aren't allowed to wander around unless they've been cleared, which is why we see Klyn question Tarrant. If this were a wide open base, she had no reason to stop him. He didn't come in under arrest; he was walking beside Blake. But Klyn knows about Blake's testing. She knows what procedures are necessary before someone is cleared to roam the base. Tarrant hadn't yet been given that clearance so she tries to stop him. > [c] Blake takes both Arlen and Tarrant there *before they've been tested*, > not something someone as suspicious as he's become would do with the real > base. He certainly wouldn't have survived to this point (even if 'to this > point' isn't very long, see below) if he'd taken all and every candidate > there before Deva could run checks on them (one thing that must be > remembered when judging Blake's risky policy - up to this point, by all the > evidence we have - *it has worked*, since he's still alive :-). Or one might say it didn't work because he's about to be dead. The Federation operation was carefully planned and executed. They didn't just find out he was there a day or so ago. They had to set up a cover for Arlen. They had to get troops in place to mount an assault on the base. And as I said, Arlen might not have been the first/only agent they employed. Others might not have made it that far. There's something else you're overlooking. When Blake goes to Avon, he calls him by name. He identifies himself as "Blake." Now he wouldn't do that in an unsecure base that has real bounty hunters wandering in and out. That *would* be suicidally stupid. Then there's Deva's cry that the base is under attack. Deva isn't running in to warn Blake that the two of them need to make like rabbits and run. It's the entire base he's worried about. Blake's base. And there are Arlen's words; she calls the base "a nest of rebels." Carol

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Re: [B7L] Gauda Prime (was Shadows of Blake)
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

On the same episode, a small fact, the significance of which I'm still mulling over ... GP has only been trying to 'put their house in order' (as Orac says) for a short period of time. While I think it must be longer than the thirty days since they formally applied to join the Federation, it still indicates that bounty hunting on GP hasn't been going on that long. So while Blake may have been building up his group on GP for longer (he obviously has an affinity for working with law-breakers), possibly the bounty hunter bit is only very recent, adapting to circumstances, as 'twere ... Also, how long was GP an open planet? We don't *know* how old Soolin was when her family was murdered, it appears to be generally assumed that she was a child (so that the murderers would 'adopt' and teach her) but I really don't know that we can be talking about 15-20 or more years, since it would not take that long for the farmers to be disposed of, or the new owners to want rid of the crooks and murderers afterwards. Any thoughts? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake (long)
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Carol asked: <Sally, you've said that it's a vigilante police base before.> IMO, of course, I don't insist on it for everyone else, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me :-) <How can it be a vigilante police base when Arlen goes from being a wanted criminal to a member of the security team?> Easily. For a start, Deva is obviously [a] in charge of the computers, if not the whole base, and [b] one of the main authorities *on* the base (remember, Blake ostensibly goes to get his targets - in effect, his 'orders' - from Deva). So he fudges Arlen's records, tells the other workers she turned out to be innocent, or just turned (wouldn't mind betting that quite a few of the scummier bounty hunters started out that way too). This isn't a proper police station with an eye to the niceties of law and order - the people of GP, having spent years as an open planet, are unlikely to be that particular. They just want the place cleared up. If 'ex'-criminals kill or capture the still-criminals, so what? (I've been reading on Tudor 'law and order' again, can anyone tell? :-)) That's what *makes* it a good set-up, because Our Heroes (well, I do count both Blake and Deva as two of Mine) can subvert the Gaudian gallop to respectability. <There's also this conversation that recognizes Blake is in charge and that Arlen has joined *his* team.> That's between the three of them. No one else on the base is involved. Notice that Klyn always takes her orders from *Deva*, even if Deva gets them first from Blake: KLYN: [V.O.] There's a flyer just put down in the silo. It had all the right signals, but it isn't one of ours. BLAKE: Let them through. DEVA: [into intercom] Let them through. [intercom link breaks] Is that wise? <There's also the fact that it would be very dangerous for Blake to lure Avon onto the base if it is a vigilante base. Avon has a "particularly" large price on his head. If this is a vigilante base, it's a very dangerous place for him to be. Any passing bounty hunter might kill him to collect the reward.> A very *old* very large price., as Tarrant mentions: TARRANT: Well, it might. There's still a price on our heads from the old days. SOOLIN: Not on G-P, there isn't. Why should any of the GP people recognise him? He wasn't that famous in his own right (Shrinker and other Federation officials *on Earth* didn't recognise him), and much of the information about Blake's people was suppressed. The worries the crew express are about *Blake* (if he's a real bounty hunter) selling them. There's probably an old price on Blake's head as well (there certainly was at the time of City: "You're top of the Federation's Most Wanted list - after Blake," and it's clear that many people in the Federation don't think he's dead towards the end of S3 - Grose, Moloch, Shrinker, Rumours), and it's unlikely that Servalan spread the Jevron story among the rulers-to-be of the Federation, since it was in her interest to keep it dubious. But he's wandering around among genuine bounty hunters without being spotted (moving away from on-screen evidence, there's also the fact that no one recognise the damned ex-President, who *also* has a price on her head IIRC. People just *don't* :-)). Also, remember, Blake doesn't know *for certain* that it was Avon following him. The Galactic Information Superhighway got bombed in the war along with everything else; we don't know if Blake knew much - or anything - about what has happened to the Liberator, his people, his people's new people ... one reason he can't trust Tarrant. He may *hope* it's Avon, but when he finds the Scorpio, he really has no idea where Avon and Vila are (and possibly Cally, if he doesn't know she's dead), what's happened to them, if they *were* with Tarrant at the time, if they've been dead for ages ... nothing. He draws the following ship in because it might be Avon; he doesn't lure it to his real base because it might not. Now to why I actually believe that it's a proto-police station rather than Blake's real base ... anyone who recognises this, sorry, I can't recall exactly where on when I posted it: [a] There's no canonical proof it *is* Blake's real base (he calls it 'a base, the beginnings of an army'. Not *this* base.) [b] Klyn obviously believes Blake to be a genuine bounty hunter: KLYN: Someone's operating a distress beacon. It's on the official frequency. BLAKE: Nothing in it for me, then. Outlaws tend not to use distress beacons. - and that Deva is in charge. Therefore, she *cannot* be part of his organisation. Since she's in a fairly important position - right at the front desk - this cannot *be* his organisation, QED (Of course, it could be argued for fictional purposes that she is, and is pretending not to know, but then it means the people around them are not part of Blake's organisation. Same difference, methinks). Similarly, the bounty hunters hanging around and getting their orders are genuine (and some of them complete scum). Blake's become jaded and suspicious, not suicidally stupid ("I'm still alive,") so that completely rules out this being the rebel base for me. [c] Blake takes both Arlen and Tarrant there *before they've been tested*, not something someone as suspicious as he's become would do with the real base. He certainly wouldn't have survived to this point (even if 'to this point' isn't very long, see below) if he'd taken all and every candidate there before Deva could run checks on them (one thing that must be remembered when judging Blake's risky policy - up to this point, by all the evidence we have - *it has worked*, since he's still alive :-). Maybe it was bound to come a cropper, but since we don't know how many people they've successfully recruited before this, we can't judge). So, if it's not the base Blake is talking about to Deva, what is it? Clearly one of the (presumably multiple) bases from which the attempt to clear GP of criminals is being carried out. There is no formal law and order, we are told, and therefore no 'legal' police bases. The people of GP appear to be funding the non-legal use of bounty hunters (after all, Our Heroes may have Federation prices on their heads, it's unlikely that the general riff-raff do, and the bounties have to come from somewhere) to do their house-cleaning for them. How this is done, we don't know, but in the absence of strong government my opinion is that money is being channelled from the wealthy wanna-be-respectable GP citizens - the mining corporations, maybe? - through people like Deva to set up bases from which the bounty hunters can operate and be paid. JMO, as usual. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Louise Rutter 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Sally wrote: >I admit freely, I haven't seen any of Star Cops and don't recall much, good, >bad or ambiguous about Leela in Dr Who (hi, Louise, I did read your post >:-)) so was talking about Boucher in his role as B7 writer *only.* I defer >on those to anyone who has seen them ... Anyone who thinks Boucher is God needs to see Star Cops. Which part of the world are you living in? Leela had something of Blake about her - she had an innate sense of justice and fair play and was always willing to stick up for the underdog, even at risk to herself. But if the only way to do that was to stick a knife in a bad guy, she would. The Doctor didn't entirely succeed in stopping her. Louise

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Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Dana wrote: <It's a cushion shot for Avon...he gets to make Vila feel better and Tarrant look worse.> <g> but to be fair (I'm not sure who to), it's more enjoyable because Tarrant is there to hear it and Vila isn't. Were it the other way round, IMO he'd be looking for something to make *Tarrant* look better and *Vila* worse (tell me again why we love him?). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Louise wrote: <Anyone who thinks Boucher is God needs to see Star Cops. Which part of the world are you living in?> The Australian countryside. Until the last 10 or so years, there was a *lot* we didn't see, even B7 only got shown once that I recall :-( Actually, I'd call him a demi-god; he and Nation were of equal importance to my take on B7 (odd how the producer and directors never get mentioned :-) but let's cheer David Maloney, whose casting was *just* as important to a CJ like meself ...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

>Dana wrote: > ><Actually, it's the people of Lindor I'm worried about - we have no >canonical evidence that they want Sarkoff back. As I remarked on another >occasion, perhaps "Sarkoff" is Lindorian for "Bill Clinton."> <snip> I see Sarkoff more of an Alan Clark type Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Star One
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

There is a way in which Star One could have been provided with staff, equipment etc without it being 'discovered' to be such. If the complex were designated, and also served as, 'Hubble Intergalactic Observatory No 1' (or equivalent) supply ships could be sent regularly without anyone becoming suspicious as to why a base existed 'in the middle of nowhere.' This might also explain how the planet 'Horizon' was discovered - the Federation was looking for an intermediary stop, and the discovery of Monopasium 239 was a fortunate accident. Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Blakes7 August 2001