Blakes7 August 2001

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51 participants
264 discussions

Culcher
by Una McCormack 09 Aug '01

09 Aug '01

Nicola Collie and I are planning to get a bit of culcher a week on Saturday (the 18th) to see the Vermeer exhibition at the National Gallery, which (and please forgive me because I'll only get to milk this once in my life) I enjoyed *immensely* in New York, dahlings. Anyway, we thought it might be fun to meet up in the evening with any other Londoners or thereabouts or indeed anyone who wants to come from wherever you are, for a spot of dinner and/or trip to the pub. Email me off list if you want to meet up in London on 18th August: una(a)qresearch.org.uk Una

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Kill the Dead
by Steve Rogerson 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

I've just finished reading Tanith Lee's book "Kill the Dead". This is the one where the lead character is an avatar of Avon. He's called Parl Dro (geddit?). The second lead is called Myal Lemyal and is a Vila avatar. Having read it, I also think that the lead female character Ciddey Soban has a lot in common with Cally, even though as far as I know she has never been acknowledged by Tanith as an avatar. Parl Dro is a ghost hunter, He goes around killing ghosts, hence the title. Myal is a travelling minstrel, pickpocket and coward, with odd glimpses of bravery - she caught Vila's character very well. The basic plot is that Parl arrives in a village on the way to a legendry ghost town that nobody ever comes back from. He meets up with Myal in an inn, and he is also, for reasons he doesn't know, looking for this town. He tells himself that he wants to write a song about it. While in the village, Parl rids Ciddey of her ghost sister and she avows revenge on him because she liked having her ghost sister around. That sets up the basic story without giving too much away as to how it develops. Her dialogue of Parl and Myal, especially when they are talking with each other, is very good, and you can hear Avon and Vila saying the lines. The story itself meanders a bit and gets a bit dull in parts, but still pulls you back into the tale often enough to keep you interested, when it sometimes becomes hard to put down. There are also some nice twists and turns on the way and at the end. In conclusion, it should be on the to-read list of any B7 fan. Here we have a person who wrote two episodes of the series and is a well-known fantasy writer merging her two disciplines. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: Frame captures
by Alison Page 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

Cor! What a great episode for frame captures. Very stylish. I think I like Carnell even better than Vinnie. A smashing guest character. Looking through these pictures I am reminded all over again of why I love b7. But why oh why is so much cleverness and creativity disfigured by silly plot stuff which could be so easily avoided? Why can a person who is capable of inventing Carnell incapable of making a better fist of Imipac? Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] New frame captures
by Sally Manton 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Shallowness warning :-) this is going to be *all* about the surface of the episode ... and Lisa is right, a very *very* photogenic surface it is too (this is, of course, the way to keep the viewer's mind off the plot holes (like when did Carnell get an insight into Blake's wardrobe? Being able to predict what his target would be wearing on a particular day is an impressive feat indeed.) Happily clicking on all those shots of the round-Orac discussion at the start, one is reminded again what a picturesque lot of criminals-come-rebels we have here (and elsewhere, when you think about it. Where are all the ugly idealists?) And dressed to kill ... Cally and Jenna's brilliant colours and gold jewellry, Vila proving he looks nearly as good in silky black as Avon, much better than the shadoes-of-small-rodent he got in S3 and Gan in one of his Tudor vests; Blake's Robin Hood get-up (and those less beautiful but very endearing just-got-out-of-bed-through-the-wrong-side-of-a-hedge-backwards moments ); and Avon, of course, introducing us to the red leather trousers ... and, later on, that bloody Lobster Top (it's not only ugly, it's sooo unflattering). The sheer aren't-they-*all*-gorgeous factor of No 56 is really only matched IMO by the flight deck shot at the start of Shadow (sigh) and that "all stand in a line and just *look* at Keiller" one in Gold (one of my favourite bits of that episode - as artificial as hell, but as an example of how to intimidate in style, 'tis glorious :-). But back to Weapon ... Am still trying to work out why, in an Evil Empire where people from high to low wear plain, unadorned and fairly severe clothes (until they become revolutionary pirates, of course ... or Supreme Commander :-)) a Beta grade technician and a bond slave, working in a weapons development complex, are dressed up like Halloween party-goers from a lost episode of Dr Who. But do't they look good? Don't care for Carnell, but I *adore* the outfit. Our Heroes shoulda had an episode where *Avon* had to be passed off to be a psychostrategist. God, I love Rashel. One of my three favourite guests characters (along with Dr Bellfriar and you-can-guess-who ... and they're *all* in Lisa's library now!!!) I adore the way this just-escaped slave not only faces down the Supreme Commander, but allows her contempt for Servalan to show through the defiance (can't help wondering if that was part of the reason Servie's temper was so foul at the end - someone with her ego would find contempt from an inferior intolerable, and *everyone* is I-her-O her inferior. But a bond slave ..!) And three Blakes, a surfeit of riches (glad we didn't see Blake1 going down on his knees before Travis, though. That's soooo un-Blake, but then he *is* only five hours old... ) Lisa, thank you again and again for these. I loved them. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: Orbit
by Betty Ragan 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Guy wrote: > Yeah - I agree absolutely. This is a bit fanciful (and apologies in advance > to any Christians - no offence intended), but I see this as Avon's > Gethsemane moment. His god is Logic and he thinks he's already given more > than enough to show his devotion, and then he suddenly gets hit with a > demand to sacrifice basically the only thing he's got left. But of course > he's so far in by this time that there's no real prospect of his doing > anything other than what he actually does. I think Abraham and Isaac would be an even better analogy. -- Betty Ragan ** ragan(a)sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ Dr. Hibbert: "You need some friends that aren't printed on paper." Comic Book Guy: "You mean action figures?" -- _The Simpsons_

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Re: Orbit
by Betty Ragan 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Responding to me, Sally wrote: > <But once Orac brought it out into the open, Avon was forced to > acknowledge it. And once he'd permitted the thought into his head, it > would have gone against his entire self-image *not* to follow up on > it.> > > That's a tad too harsh, methinks. I don't believe the self-image comes into > it, just the simple truth that he *is* a survivor (if not *quite* first and > foremost) and once thrown a lifeline will grab it, if a little > falteringly. Harsh, yes, but I'm inclined to think that the self-image thing *is* a factor, and not a small one. I don't have anything concrete to point to in canon supporting that, mind, so it's quite likely just me projecting. But I do think Avon has built a lot of his self-identity around being a survivor, around being pragmatic and unsentimental and controlled by intellect rather than by emotions. Hell, I think he likes to equate "pragmatic" with "intelligent," and intelligence is certainly at the core of his self-perception. To have allowed his emotions to override the clear logic of survival wouldn't *just* have endangered his life, it would have forced him to accept that he'd let sentiment make a fool of him *again* (after Anna, after Terminal). Talk about adding insult to injury... And, yeah, I *do* think Avon's capable of killing to protect his ego. Hell, I think that was at least a part of the whole emotional mess that led to him pulling the trigger on Blake. He was "forced to recognize the fool" *again*... Painful. Very, very painful. > Actually, it's an impossible situation - either way he went, he must condemn > himself utterly by his own standards afterwards. Yes, if he *had* let Vila off the hook, he would have been utterly disgusted with himself for failing to live up to his own standards of behavior, for failing to be the cold, self-interested bastard he really, really *wants* to be. For being *weak*, when weakness is the one thing he can't afford. On the other hand, if he'd killed Vila... *he would have killed Vila*. Yet another load of guilt that he can't even acknowledge because he can't admit to himself that he has anything to be guilty *about*. Angst-city, any way you slice it. > (yes, yes, I know, :) > 'Avon nearly killed Vila, poor Avon'). It's amazing how easily he evokes that sort of reaction, isn't it? :) > Which is why Blake's insistence on trusting him in Time Squad and > thereafter really *doesn't* please him one little bit (yet, once he > cares about someone, the lines blur. I think by S2 he does - > reluctantly and without admitting it - want and value Blake's trust, > look how that temper-driven stab of Blake's in The Keeper *stings*). Oh, yeah. Once someone's crossed the line and gotten an inexorable hold on his emotions, to the point where he truly *does* value their safety as much as his own, there's not a whole lot of point in his continuing to play that don't-trust-me game. Personally, I agree with you: I think he's pretty much given up on it by somewhere in the middle of the second season, as far as Blake is concerned. Unfortunately for Vila, unlike Blake, *he* never *quite* made it unambiguously to the other side of that line. Possibly quite precisely because Avon knows that, unlike Blake, Vila wouldn't hesitate to screw *him* over if it came down to a matter of survival. All I-M-unsupported character-junkie-O, of course... -- Betty Ragan ** bragan(a)nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov

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Sayings from the series - not
by Sally Manton 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Andrew wrote: <I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but Avons' "What do you want me to do with the other hand?" gets a frequent workout around here> <grin> I have a Dilbert coffee mug with the motto "Let me drop everything and work on YOUR problem," which I can just HEAR Avon saying ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Weapon (was New frame captures)
by Sally Manton 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

Mistral wrote: <And another way in which she miscalculates Blake's importance - she is completely taken by surprise when Avon tells Vila to take the Liberator and run. Surely I am not the only person who thinks that action of Avon's was about not letting Blake down as much as anything else?> Me me me!!! <g> I think it was a *major* factor in everything he did in that last part of the episode. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Weapon (was New frame captures)
by Sally Manton 07 Aug '01

07 Aug '01

A thought that occurred to me while going through the pictures, one point of similarity between this episode and Terminal, two of Servalan's elaborate, seemingly successful and ultimately failed plots. Though Carnell blames it on the fact that no one told him about 'the girl' it's interesting that in both cases Servalan's plan hinges on using Blake-as-bait, and in both cases, *that's* what screws up her plan before it even gets going, though no one knows it. In Terminal, her use of Blake's importance to Avon (which she both calculates *and* miscalclates) pushes him to drive the Liberator through the cloud of ick, ensuring the ship's destruction even before they reach Terminal where she's waiting. And in Weapon, she equally miscalculates what control can be held over a replica of a man whose rebellious nature goes bone deep; we can see the clone showing signs of independent thought within minutes of their meeting, a clear sign that *her* 'weapon' is going to turn on her. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [B7L] Sayings from the series
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

"Andrew Williams" <awilliams(a)daikin.com.au> wrote: > >I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but Avons' "What do you want me >to do with the other hand?" gets a frequent workout around here >(whenever something else comes up to fill that Copious Free Time I >apparently have). > But it is 'such a useful quote.' Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Blakes7 August 2001