Blakes7 July 2001

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55 participants
273 discussions

Re: [B7L] Orbit (or who knows what evil lurks in a little plastic box ...)
by James Mansson 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

---------- >From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter(a)btinternet.com> >To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7(a)lists.lysator.liu.se> >Subject: RE: [B7L] Orbit (or who knows what evil lurks in a little plastic box ...) >Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001, 6:39 pm > >Sally Manton wrote: > >>If Orac *had* nudged Vila into trying it, and they'd survived as they did >in >>the real Orbit, would Avon have shown any anger towards Orac? (BTW, would >he >>have done so towards Vila? I really aren't sure that he would - he is >honest >>enough to realise that Vila's self-interest exceeds his own) > >After all these years, I remain horribly undecided on this one. I imagine >Avon would despise hypocrites, but he is capable of being hypocritical >himself - for instance he complains bitterly about Blake concealing things >from the others, but does the same thing himself. > >Logically, he would realise that Vila had done exactly what he himself >would have done. Emotionally, he does react very badly to betrayal. I have >no idea which would have won out - his immediate reaction would have been >anger, I suspect, though I don't know whether he would have held a grudge >the way Vila did. > >Angry at Orac? I sure as hell would have been. I refuse to believe that >frail Pinder managed to carry that block on board the shuttle, so it must >have been loaded by the automated (ie computer-controlled) system. Why >didn't Orac investigate that possibility before setting the occupants to >killing one another? > >Louise > > Presumably because it wasn't asked the right question. More to the point is why Avon didn't consider the possibility until he (quite literally - the writer's joke?) tripped over it. Best wishes, James

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(no subject)
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Does nobody have anything to say then? Where have all the controversies gone (g)? Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Worst Crossover
by Dana Shilling 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Cally McBeal, with a tray of 15 dancing embryos? Well, she's certainly thin enough... -(Y)

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RE: [B7L] Orbit (or who knows what evil lurks in a little plastic box ...)
by Louise Rutter 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Sally Manton wrote: >If Orac *had* nudged Vila into trying it, and they'd survived as they did in >the real Orbit, would Avon have shown any anger towards Orac? (BTW, would he >have done so towards Vila? I really aren't sure that he would - he is honest >enough to realise that Vila's self-interest exceeds his own) After all these years, I remain horribly undecided on this one. I imagine Avon would despise hypocrites, but he is capable of being hypocritical himself - for instance he complains bitterly about Blake concealing things from the others, but does the same thing himself. Logically, he would realise that Vila had done exactly what he himself would have done. Emotionally, he does react very badly to betrayal. I have no idea which would have won out - his immediate reaction would have been anger, I suspect, though I don't know whether he would have held a grudge the way Vila did. Angry at Orac? I sure as hell would have been. I refuse to believe that frail Pinder managed to carry that block on board the shuttle, so it must have been loaded by the automated (ie computer-controlled) system. Why didn't Orac investigate that possibility before setting the occupants to killing one another? Louise

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Re: [B7L] Im New
by Sally Manton 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Hi, Tony and welcome! <we even have 3 library servers names after the blakes 7 computers,> <grin> isn't naming any mechanical device after Orac just *asking* for trouble? (OTOH, name it after Gambit and it could self-destruct on you ...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Frame capture vote results
by Natasa Tucev 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Harriet wrote re 'Voice': >The story would work better if it was a parallel >to Shadow and his attempt to recruit the Terra Nostra, and I'd also move >it back a bit. > >That way, the first part of second season could be loosely grouped >around Blake attempting to find allies to help him overthrow the >Federation, and then discovering that they're ruled out (the Terra >Nostra are the Federation, the dissident governors have been infiltrated >by the Federation, possibly something similar with grassroots rebels, or >else they're only interested in local issues and ignore the big >picture). And then that forces him into the decision that there is no >alternative to the destruction of Central Control/Star One, which >dominates the second half of the season. I like this idea. It's consistent with Blake's character and his feeling of responsibility that he should explore all other options before resorting to such a drastic action as blowing up Control. I also agree with you that Blake has probably encountered many 'dissident governers interested only in local issues'. This is quite a realistic assumption, although there's no canonic evidence for it. Another naive detail in the series, IMO, is that the rebellion's leaders all get on so well. From the very beginning, the whole anti-Federation movement is so harmonious: Bran Foster and his comrades discuss how to help the rebels in the Outer Worlds, cultural center doesn't despise the periphery. There are no fractions with opposed ideological views, personal ambitions or dislikes, conflicting local or territorial interests, stuff that usually brings a revolution to a collapse. (Some of these motifs we encounter in S3 and S4, but not while Blake is around.) When I was a kid I read Karl May's novels and I recall Winnetou saying he would have tried to unite all the Indian tribes in the continent and dump all the white men into the ocean, but he knows it's impossible because it would take a lifetime to smooth over all their internal disputes and animosities. Blake may have faced a similar situation. N.

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Re: [B7L] Torture in the Federation
by Sally Manton 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Stephen wrote re Cally: <But she does volunteer to go down to the planet with Blake which, to me at least, is a sign that she wanted to atone in some way for being taken over.> I saw it more as she believed that, as they were Auronar, she was more 'qualified' to deal with them (once she was 'prepared' <g>). And after my: <it's possible that - as long as any damage was contained - they saw it as no more her fault than Blake's (yes, even Avon :-). He's still detached enough from Cally to look at the whole thing unemotionally).> Stephen: <Again, this runs counter to what we see in the Web when Avon's reaction to Cally's possession is to advocate dumping her.> In the first flush of anger, yes he got a bit vicious (but then, she did make a bit of a fool of him as well with the flirty bit :-)) but, while he's short with her in the teleport room, he's hardly still treating her like a potential threat, is he? (and neither he nor Jenna bring up the ditching proposal later, by the end of the episode it's all forgotten). <Avon isn't very good at cutting people slack for their mistakes.> Oh agreed, but there's a big difference between a real betrayal and breaking under pressure. And actually, unless his own loyalties or emotions are involved (as with Blake, Anna and maybe Tynus) he tends to view shades of 'betrayal' rather more dispassionately than it seems at first (and at this stage, he's *not* very emotionally connected to Cally). Look at the lack of reaction to the way Tarrant and Soolin go behind his back, risking the Warlord plan; in Headhunter, he loses his temper at the end over the others' actions (and whether or not one thinks they were right, I doubt Avon ever did, or that they had the right to deceive him) but by Assassin he shows no sign of mistrust - well, no more than usual :-). Vila cracks under Travis's interrogation in Hostage - sure, he gets a knee in the groin from a guilt-affected Avon, but there's again no later sign that Avon or any of the others still resent it , *and* he's still taking Vila with him on missions both official and extremely *un*official, as in Gambit. (Hostage is interesting because of Avon's position as seeing what *he* did as a betrayal - albeit with good intentions - and the mess it makes of his detachment.) Then there's Voice from the Past, and Blake's ations there; is he any more to blame than one of the others who cracked under interrogation? (especially since it appears that, though the *compulsion* to act was externally driven, Blake's actual words and actions came from his own mind and drew on his own knowledge of his crew and ship). <So once Avalon is hooked up to one of the machines indefinitely it is overwhelmingly likely that she would talk. Cally was released fairly early on so it is entirely possible that she told the Federation little or nothing.> This I agree with, actually; if Cally told them anything, it wasn't much (and as I said, she may not even be aware if she did). *Like* Avalon, her primary purpose during the scenes we see is as bait; by the time they plan to get round to the heavy stuff, it's too late, as the bait's been rescued :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Orbit (or who knows what evil lurks in a little plastic box ...)
by Sally Manton 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Given that [a] Orac's first priority - by about a trillion miles - is its precious self, but that [b] of all its humans, it appears to like Avon best, what would the result have been had *Vila* been closer to the gun in Orbit and had asked the fatal question? My immediate reaction is that - in self-interest - it would have been 'Avon weighs more than 70 kilos', but would Orac have been so certain of Vila's ability to win any fight for the gun and/or shoot Avon if he *had* to? (my further opinion is that yes, Vila would have killed Avon to save himself, but would the rat in a box agree?) If Orac *had* nudged Vila into trying it, and they'd survived as they did in the real Orbit, would Avon have shown any anger towards Orac? (BTW, would he have done so towards Vila? I really aren't sure that he would - he is honest enough to realise that Vila's self-interest exceeds his own) While Orbit isn't on my Top Ten episodes (no Blake :-)) I do like the fact that it has our three most blatant examples of self-interest smashing head-on, and only one comes out of it the same ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] (no subject)
by Deborah Day 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --------------------------------------------------------------- >Does nobody have anything to say then? I'm still waiting for my Carry On Blake script Debbie

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Re: [B7L] Headhunter & Assassin (was: (no subject))
by Sally Manton 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Marian wrote: <In Assassin, why are the two slavers who are holding Avon not surprised when he addresses "Sleer" as Servalan? And does this mean that she later kills them to keep their mouths shut? Or even kills all the slavers?> and Anna replied: <I've always more than half suspected that *everyone* in the Federation knew who Sleer really was, they were just humouring her. I expect that a memo got sent round, saying basically, 'Look, she's having fun, she's a useful genocidal maniac to have running the pac. prog., and being busy keeping her secret is stopping her having a pop at the new Pres. Let's all just go along with, shall we?'> <grin> Like that, I do. Of course, the alternative is that the slavers neither knew nor cared who this particular 'Servalan' might be. If slavery is illegal or semi-legal, then quite a lot of their customers could use false identites, no questions asked; and when all is said and done, Servalan was only in the *public* eye for a short and rather non-glorious period as President, so people outside the elite political circles (and her victims) have probably just about forgotten her. This is part of the reason she can get away with the Sleer persona, as long as she stays in the outer reaches of the Federation power structure. And after all <g> is there any proof that she's the only one of that name anyway? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Blakes7 July 2001