Blakes7 April 2001

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Cult Times #68
by Judith Proctor 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

The new issue of Cult Times, #68, has an article comparing Blake's 7 and First Wave. B7 comes well out of the comparison, though Paul's fans might not be too happy with the description of his acting style. Two pages with a couple of photos. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '03 21-23 Feb 2003 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Jenny Kaye 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Judith wrote: > ><for those who don't know, Chris was the script editor on Blake's 7 > >>and also wrote many of my favourite episodes such as Rumours of Death.> > > > >and Jenny Kaye: > > > ><Thanks for that Judith, though I think it's also best to add that for > >those who don't know, Blake's 7 was a British science fiction drama series > >that ran from 1978 to 1981. Some of you might have seen it, or even possess > >the odd episode on video.> > > > >?!?! I'm sorry if I'm being thick, but I'm not sure I understand this > >comment? Okay. Blake's 7 was a television programme that appeared in the United Kingdom (an island in Europe). It was broadcast by the British Broadcasting Corporation for four years. When I say "for four years", I mean not continually, I mean just for 13 episodes per year. Usually they started running in the first month of every year (January). For the first run of 50 minute episodes it went out on the first day of the week (Monday), but for the second series it went out on the second day of the week (Tuesday). Then for the next two series it went back to Monday again. This was very confusing for some of the UK's population, who complained bitterly when series 3 started that they had "somehow missed" series 2. The BBC in response refused to repeat series 2, and have stuck by that decision ever since. Two ships were occupied by the crew of Blake's 7. The first one was big and white, but at the end of series three it got blown up. Then they got a second ship called Scorpio. This one was orange. This ship is often disliked by fans because it's not big and white. That crash-landed on Gauda Prime. This isn't some reference to a Danish cheese or anything, it's the name of a planet (these can usually be found orbiting around various suns). In the very last episode of the series Blake and his crew were all shot dead. Some fans don't like to watch this episode because it upsets them. Others have denied its existence, and still others have tried to say that it was all Vila's dream (a particularly honest and loveable character from the series, who wouldn't harm anyone, not even a fly). Possibly the most memorable character to appear in the series was Avon, played by Paul Darrow (he was an actor). This character is very controversial. Some people maintain he was a ruthless bastard, who treated his crew with contempt and eventually got them all needlessly killed. Others however, take the opposite view, and see Avon as a deeply caring and lovely human being, who only acted like an evil bastard because deep down he was a deeply caring and lovely human being. Anyway, I hope this information has been in someway helpful to you... Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Weapon ranks (was: Captain Vila (part two))
by Jenny Kaye 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Now, the matter of Weapon, Coser and the Beta rank. > > > >Jenny wrote: > ><I think what we are actually seeing is the Beta Grade from the perspective > >of Coser, who is quite clearly vengeful, and not just a little bit mad.> > > > >Absolutely, but the episode makes it clear *to me* that he has grounds for > >seeing it that way. Firstly, the point that Travis and Servalan make, that > >his taking Security by surprise shows he "is brighter than his grade > >classification would suggest". Given what we see of Federation security, > >this does not speak highly of > >the grade classification in question *at all*. True, grade classification is not a good thing. > >The clear implication is > >that Betas are not regarded (at least by people like Servalan and Travis) > >as> >incapable of original thought, I'm confused by that double negative. Do you mean they *are* or *aren't* regarded as capable of original thought? If they *are,* which is how it reads right now, then I agree. But if you mean they *aren't* regarded as capable of original thought, then I disagree. The clear implication is that Security did not foresee Coser running amok with a gun, which doesn't mean lack of imagination, just docility. Servalan did forsee it however, because in the scene you refer to Servalan is being economical with the truth, as the next scene with Carnell demonstrated. > >which bolsters Coser's belief that his > >invention - his original work - could be stolen from him. It probably was stolen from him, but the boss always takes the credit for anything good that happens. > >(And given that our own Vila is perfectly capable of taking Security (SLD), > >Fearless Leader Who's this then? Avon? > >and everyone else in sight - including himself - by surprise, it's rather > >telling.) No, it's an entirely different situation to Coser's unless of course there exists an episode where Vila goes postal with a gun that I haven't seen. > >And then there's Blake who, in my biased opinion, is unusually > >egalitarian (his method is to treat everyone as social equals, while > >ordering them *all* about) And of course when Avon took control things completely changed, didn't they? Except of course in episodes like City, Rumours, Terminal, Stardrive, Blake.... > >but says quite bluntly "Coser's only a Beta > >class weapons technician, so he's not important enough to have caused all this > >fuss." i e, Betas are seen as rather lowly. As we have no idea what a Beta would be expected to do, it is impossible to draw any conclusions. Blake may just have been referring to the fact that Betas don't usually get access to stuff that would cause the Federation to initiate such a major alert. > >Regarding your: > ><Yes, but until he had actually experienced such a thing, how could he know > >what it was all about?> > > > >He hasn't been an Alpha either, but he's got a fair grasp of what it means > >as far as Blake's concerned ('Shadow'). It wouldn't be that hard to work > >out where he would be most comfortable and could pursue his chosen > >profession (thief) most easily - he can be perceptive when he wants, and if > >it's to do with getting what *he* wants out of life, he will want. If you had bothered to read my email properly, you would have seen that this was the exact point I was making! If that's all he wants, why go to all that trouble to get some friend to mark him down a grade? > ><Also, any prejudice from Alpha grades for Betas must be lightweight > >compared to the prejudice he would feel as a Delta.> > > > >Who said he'd be concerned about prejudice? You did, actually, in the e-mail which I was answering. Vila doesn't actually show > >much concern about what the others think about his ranking or him personally > >*until* this scene; What about the scene in Horizon then? he's perfectly happy to let them think what they like > >if it gets him what he wants (after all, he has a low opinion of most of them > >too). Again, where does he *say* any of this? > >The reason he gives for *wanting* a Delta grade actually rings true in one > >respect There is no direct evidence that he is a Delta Grade. > >- it has nothing to do with outside bias or prejudices Well, you did bring it up! or how > >others would treat him, but a solid, practical basis on what he thinks would make > >his life more or less unpleasant: going into the military being (I-his-O) > >anything but desirable for this. Yes, but if Vila's suggestion that he took a 'Space Captains' exam' is an outright lie, then there can be no "solid, practical basis" to start with. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (part 1)
by Jenny Kaye 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Mistral wrote: > ><Actually, you're making an assumption that Vila was trying to distract > >Avon, and so your question is inherently biased.I don't agree with that > >assumption; I simply think he was breaking off a tangential discussion that > >was going away from what he really wanted to talk about,> > > > >and Jenny: > ><How can you possibly say that you know what he "really" wanted to talk > >about? All you can go by is what's on the screen.> Sally wrote: > >But with all due respect - and I'm really not trying to offend - how can > >*you* insist he wants to distract Avon? That's not on the screen either. Yes it was--he visibly (well, audibly) changes the subject. Either he wants to get Avon off this topic, or else he feels a total compulsion to warn Avon about the dangers of Tarrant, right that very minute. > >And distract Avon from *what*? You have said that a couple of times, and I > >don't see it comes from. As I said before, Vila is changing the subject, because he knows that all this Space Captain stuff is really nonsense, and that Avon knows is, and he wants to change the subject quickly before Avon starts tearing his feeble story apart. > >What actually happens on screen - at least as far > >as I can see - is that Avon and Cally are having a who-can-be-more-cryptic > >conversation, Most cryptic conversations can be worked out if you care to. Vila, not unreasonably, asks what they're talking about and > >Avon (who appears not to want to answer that one) comes back with one of > >his standard put-downs. And Vila - who for two years has let said put-downs > >slide by No he hasn't. Vila often has a go at Avon. See Space Fall, Duel, Bounty, Deliverance, Redemption etc. - decides this time to take Avon up on it *Vila* is > >the one being distracted, not Avon. By what? > >And the "never mind about me" is also quite reasonable IMO - he's just > >realised he *has* been distracted from the main thing, the fact that > >trouble's brewing ("I've been worried all along") and is backtracking to > >it. But Vila never says, "I've been worried all along", these are just words you are putting in his mouth. And if he has been worried about Tarrant all along, why does it suddenly come up now and not before? > ><Vila tends to acquire an air of faux innocence when he's lying.> > ><No. Only when cornered.> > > > >Please, a few IMOs wouldn't go astray here Okay then, in my opinion. But I based that opinion on what I saw in the programme. > ><The specific reference to Space Captains was IMO likely an exaggeration, > >due to having issues with upper grades generally and (as Sally mentioned) > >Tarrant specifically.> > ><I'm with you on that, but if he's lying here, why believe anything else he > >says in the rest of the scene? > > > > >Why not? If he's exaggerating, there may be a kernel of truth. Everyone > >lies sometimes - that doesn't mean they do with every breath they take. No, but if they are a proven liar, I will consider everything they say with a certain suspicion, and in this scene I find no evidence to suggest that Vila isn't lying. > ><My thought is that he could certainly have tested into a slightly higher > >grade,> > ><I think that's right as well,> > > > >Then what are we arguing about? After all, he if *did* test higher, then > >there needs to be an explanation of why he isn't *in* a higher grade. Ha. Now this is a case of you quoting from Mistral's email but not having read the whole email properly. So let me state my position again. I'm not disputing that he may have been a higher grade then a Delta, he may have been a grade 5 Beta, we don't know, but I am stating that based on the evidence presented in that particular scene, I do not believe that he ever took an exam to be a Space Captain, whatever his grade, and that his statement that he bribed a friend to mark him down is also a lie. And if we refer to the scene is Horizon, then I also believe that he may have lied about being a Grade 4 as well. > ><I don't know, a cushy office job is a damn sight safer than being a thief. > > > > > > >"A thief isn't what I am, it's WHO I am." (City) Yes, that is what he has become. But then Avon was a thief as well. Just from a different social sphere. Vila in an office would still be a thief, but one with more creature comforts and less chance of getting caught (and more chance of getting off with a slap on the wrist if he did). > ><It's not an assumption. The info is there in the scene. Vila is lying.> > > > >No, that is your assumption, and (as I see it) based on at least one > >fallacy(that he wants to distract Avon, which makes no sense). Why doesn't it make sense to you? The only way it could *not* make sense is if you assume that Vila is telling the truth. And I still see no reason to assume that Vila is telling the truth in this scene, and quite a few reasons, here and elsewhere, which suggest that he wasn't. The straight > >statement 'he was lying' may have the advantage of simplicity, but *for me* > >have the rather massive disadvantage of *not* fitting the information both > >in the scene and in other episodes (in particular but not only Weapon). What information is that, then? > >So*it* is not logical, and I need to hunt around for another one. It is perfectly logical, and there is no need to hunt around for anything. > > (Though I'm not saying for one minute that you need to, if it suits you the way it is.) It's not a case of whether it "suits me", it's the simplest possible explanation. If a tortuous and long-winded explanation suits *you,* however, then fine. > >BTW - has anyone any ideas *on* what Avon and Cally's little conversation > >meant? > >Why didn't Avon mention the signal from the ground? And while we're > >at it, why send the crew babies on this one? As for why, see Mistral's excellent explanation. Either he or Cally would be a > >better choice > >- they were part of the legendary rebel team > >- surely a plus > >for anti-Federation negotiations > >- and they would at least recognise Blake > >if they fell over him Right on all points, which makes them less expendable. (unlike Tarrant, who never got up the curiosity to > >look up a picture of the man who ran the ship for two years and whose name > >still influences them, or even to look up some old log files ...) Now where does this come from? Tarrant recognised Blake in the final episode. Therefore he must have at the very least seen a photo. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (long)
by Jenny Kaye 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Jenny Kaye wrote: > ><The scene is demonstrating that Vila is: > >1/ Shallow > >2/ A braggart > >3/ An untrustworthy liar > >4/ Self deluding > >5/ Incapable of forward planning > >6/ Stupid, in that he greatly underestimates the intelligence of the people > >he is talking to. Even though he has known these people for a very long > >time.> >Let me guess, he's not your favourite character. No, I rather like him-- I'd rate him as perhaps my third favourite character :-). >Vila's background is as fluid as his mind is, of course. In 'Horizon', > >when Avon calls him "a fifth-grade ignorant", his answer is "I chose the wrong > >parents, didn't I?" - nothing about cheating one way or the other on the > >tests (interesting that he doesn't call Avon on that incorrect ranking > >either). Didn't think of that one, you're absolutely right. It's interesting, isn't it? The fact that he doesn't "correct" Avon on the ranking strongly indicates that it wasn't incorrect at all... In 'Shadow' he says to Cally that he grew up 'among the Delta > >service grades' Again, good point-- 'among' doesn't necessarily means he was one. and was in the Juvenile Detention Wards at a very young age > >("since I was old enough to read the graffiti'); So he was certainly a crook in his teens. in 'Power' he mentions to > >Pella that he was "technical advisor for the escape" at the 'academy' of > >CF-1; Well, obviously "academy" is a euphemism for something else :-). in 'Stardrive' he says he was sent to a penal colony (possibly Cf-1) > >at age 14. In 'The Way Back' he says to Blake that he's had his head > >adjusted 'by some of the best in the business'. You've done your research, haven't you :-)? > >Of course, this interesting history would make perfectly good reasons for > >being deprived of the Dreaded Captaincy, without bringing in anything about > >the tests. Very true! In fact, he's disarmingly honest about the shadier part of his > >history (always assuming he's telling the truth about *them* :-). He's not > >in the slightest bit ashamed on his Delta rank Well, first of all, we don't know for certain that he was a Delta rank, only a 5th Grade ignorant, (though it's very possible that, as Dana suggests, Alphas, Betas etc, are subdivided into further Grades). We also know that in Volcano Vila states that his classification was Grade 4 ignorant (a subtle increase on the Grade mentioned in Horizon that Vila manages to slip in) and then tries to justify that by saying he bribed a friend at the test centre to mark him down. So there are two examples of him being dishonest about his history for a start. And then you can add a third when he tells Pella he was at an "Academy" and the fourth in Horizon when he blames his Grade 5 classification on his parents. So really it isn't at all accurate to say that Vila wasn't in some way ashamed (or at least trying to play down) his past, or he'd've been straight about it, wouldn't he? - of all the crew, he's the > >most open and talkative *about* it Can't argue there :-). - nor does he seem to think it makes him > >inferior to the others (he does sometimes feel that way, I think, but due > >to very different reasons). I don't agree. Why tell all these lies if he didn't want to "adjust" his history to every situation he found himself in? So empty 'bragging' about a higher rank seems > >pointless, even for him. It's pointless, but as you've just demonstrated, he's done it on at least three occasions. > >So yes, there's a decent case to be argue that he was simply making it up > >as he went along. The problem is that one thing Vila says here is absolutely true. He is > >*not* stupid, but actually quite bright in his own way, as he clearly > >demonstrates in other episodes (sometimes pulling the possibly-Alphas' butts out of > >strife, when he absolutely *has* to). Yes, but there are different types of stupidity, isn't there? In the same way that there are different types of intelligence. Haven't you ever wondered how a particular friend can be so bright somethings, and yet utterly stupid when it comes to something else? Vila's good at hoodwinking the unwary, but then he would have to be, to be a good thief. Vila also uses language well, it's even possible that the accent he has when meeting Blake is one he had just put on, so as to appeal to Blake's Alpha Grade sensibilities. Vila is also good at opening locks, and this total paranoia means that he is sometimes right about approaching, or potential dangers. His cowardice also is an aid when in a sticky situation, in that it appears to concentrate his mind and provide the adrenaline rush that allows him to think straight. He's somewhat scatterbrained IMO, > >definitely *not* an intellectual, and as lazy mentally as physically, I think you're right. > >but he can be very quick and flexible (which is why he's Avon's second-favourite > >sparring partner, after all; *were* he stupid or slow, Avon wouldn't waste > >his breath). Again, Vila isn't slow, but he can be really stupid sometimes. Remember his dropping that gun in Space Fall? > >'Weapon', which is the episode that gives us most information - little > >though that is - on the grading system, and the reason I have real problems > >slotting Vila into Delta-by-rank. But he may not be. He could be a 5th Grade Beta. All we know is that he's a 5th Grader. He may have spent time with the Delta service grades because they were easier to steal from. We just don't know. Goodness, Coser is a *Beta*, and from the > >way Servalan and Travis - and even Blake - talk, you'd think that was only > >for the terminally slow and thick I don't really follow this bit. Servalan, Blake and Travis are all very intelligent, but all in different ways. They may all be Alphas but that doesn't mean that they all think alike. They are people, not sausages :-). - "this man Coser is brighter than his > >grade classification would suggest". He was. And that's what pissed Coser off. > >Also, the clear implication is that > >Beta grades are considered and treated as *very* inferior to Alphas runs > >all the way through the episode I think what we are actually seeing is the Beta Grade from the perspective of Coser, who is quite clearly vengeful, and not just a little bit mad. He seems like somebody who is, say, lower-middle-class and aspiring to be upper-middle-class-- and so sees everything in the most negative light possible. (actually, it's a pity that the writer made > >Coser a Beta, No. It's the entire point of the story-- where's his motivation otherwise :-)? as the attitudes in this episode to this secondary rank make > >it that much harder to judge where the rest of the crew might be; they can't*all* be Alphas!!) We are never told what they are IIRC. > >Which begs the question of how someone as bright as Vila unquestionably > >*is*ended up in the service grades that are lower even than Coser. I don't think so. Again, from the info you have provided, we don't now know that Vila was indeed a service Grade himself. And again, although Vila can be bright at some things, there's a difference between being bright and being bright enough to build a weapon as sophisticated and intelligent as IMIPAK. Coser is very interesting actually, in that he rails against the Grade classification system, yet treats Rashel like dirt. > >(It also>indicates - rather strongly - that being a Beta grade is both restrictive > >and horrible; Well, Coser sees it that way, but then Coser seems a complete egocentric bastard. > >if someone like Vila found himself headed in that direction I > >can see him doing anything to avoid it. Yes, but until he had actually experienced such a thing, how could he know what it was all about? Also, any prejudice from Alpha grades for Betas must be lightweight compared to the prejudice he would feel as a Delta. > >Unquestionably, he was having a dig at Tarrant, who at > >this stage is quite likely irritating the living daylights out of him. We don't know what the relationship between Tarrant and Vila is at this stage. Yes, he's having a dig at Tarrant, but I think it's to distract Avon. > ><As Avon confirmed, "A pro keeps it simple."> > > > >Sorry, ma'am, but I'm still an amateur at 'Playing the Game' so I don't > >have> >to do what Avon says if it don't make sense to me ... Simplicity always make sense, it's overcomplex and spurious reasoning that marks out the amateur. Jenny. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Who's Who in the Federation?
by Dana Shilling 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

It would be interesting to see the questionnaires for Who's Who (or What's What, if AIs are included) in the Federation/Rebellion, bearing in mind the salient fact that the entries are compiled by their subjects. -(Y)

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Re: [B7L] How do people watch B7?
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Me: <And Justin is *much* easier to take if his lines are by Edward Lear instead of Allan Prior ...> and Una: <Or bits of the Goon Show.> <grin> "you rotten swine, you deaded me!" ... or is that the last line of the long-lost original script for 'Blake'? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

After I wrote re The Web: <Oh but Una, my friend, my dear dear friend, you'd clip out the good A-B bits for Judith and me first, wouldn't you?> She replied: <What's your best offer?> <pained look> One would have thought one's friendship was worth a measly few bits of video ... no? Oh well ... I'll promise to keep my destructive mitts off 'Deathwatch' and 'Rumours' for you, no matter *what* the temptation ...? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (part 1)
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Carol wrote: Carol wrote: <I always thought that Avon was most protective of Dayna over other members of the crew.> Eeep. I'm agreeing with Carol! (Well, semi-agreeing, I still think he's more protective of Blake, but we won't go over *that* again). IMO Avon definitely is both more protective of and more indulgent to Dayna than most of the others - the 'in loco parentis' or avuncular thing. Though one has to also state that - in 4th season, at least - she was one of his preferred cannon-fodder crewmembers (Stardrive, Games) - possibly because with the loss of Liberator, Tarrant's value had gone up considerably <g> and he knew better than to allocate the role to Soolin ... Sally - who did realise when reading from o'seas that we agree on something else as well. I recall you saying *you* like Tarrant's Kairos costume ..? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] recognising Blake (was Captain Vila (part 1))
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Marian wrote: <In Powerplay Tarrant tells Avon: "You weren't Blake, I would have recognised him." So he did know what Blake looked like.> You have a point, I forgot that bit (yes, I've been watching Powerplay, but not those bits). Then he just forgot ... well, it was a fair time till 'Blake', I guess (or alternately he hasn't seen an actual picture, he just knows that Blake is the one with the curls ..?) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 April 2001