Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

there was a young lady
by Alison Page 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

I thought up an ending for Vila's limerick on Cygnus Alpha, and I must share it (apol's to those also on alt-fan-b7) There was a young lady of Cygnus Who thought that 'dimension' meant 'bigness' She thought 'standard by seven' Would be something like heaven When it only meant relative quickness Alison

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Re: [B7L] cats
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/10/01 6:36:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, predatrix(a)ntlworld.com writes: << Do male torties (Yank: calicos) exist or is that an unbreakable genetic wossname? >> Statistically, one in every 2,000 torties or calicos are male, and are usually (but not always) sterile. Leah (I ran the cat boards on AOL for 2 or 3 years; Annie's been breeding and showing pedigreed cats for over 25 years)

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Let's Do the Time Squad Again
by Dana Shilling 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

At the beginning of Time Squad, Jenna tells Blake that he has correctly followed her directions for flying Liberator manually. He then says "let's ask the expert" and asks Zen if he performed the maneuver correctly. Later on, instead of asking the pilot's opinion of the controls in the capsule, he asks Avon, when there isn't a reason in the world why a systems analyst and avocational hacker would know anything about them. But this may have more to do with distrust of his staff than distrust of Jenna's abilities as an individual or as a woman--after all, Blake has Vila and picnic cooler go to the communications station, but Blake seems quite surprised when Vila is able to open the door to the core unit. -(Y)

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Tavia Chalcraft 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >What grates me most in fanfic dialogue is the way many writers >try to capture the exact phrasing of lines with lots of superfluous >italics and'...'s (forgotten the technical term for them), together >with a liberal peppering of adverbs. Curiously enough my non-B7 fan (and non-writer) other half made precisely the same criticism this evening on perusal of some of the TTBA proofs. We came to the conclusion that some of the problem might be that many fanfic writers spend a lot of time on the internet and so develop text-based ways of conveying emotion, including italics, ellipsis and emoticons, which they then find tricky to disgard when writing fiction. Tavia

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Re: Liking 'character'
by Betty Ragan 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

Tavia wrote: > Neil wrote: > > What grates me most in fanfic dialogue is the way many writers > > try to capture the exact phrasing of lines with lots of superfluous > > italics and'...'s (forgotten the technical term for them), together > > with a liberal peppering of adverbs. > Curiously enough my non-B7 fan (and non-writer) other half made precisely > the same criticism this evening on perusal of some of the TTBA proofs. We > came to the conclusion that some of the problem might be that many fanfic > writers spend a lot of time on the internet and so develop text-based ways > of conveying emotion, including italics, ellipsis and emoticons, which they > then find tricky to disgard when writing fiction. As a prime offender on this point (and one who, reading this, has just made a resolution to make every effort to stop doing it, really and truly), I don't think it has a whole lot to do with the internet. (Although I have seen "internet-ese" influence some of my writing habits in other ways.) Can't speak for anybody else, but in my case, at least, it comes from wanting to write down dialog exactly as I "hear" it, but realizing (often in extreme frustration) that simply writing down the words leaves out a lot of the qualities of the speech. In my head, there are also pauses, inflections, subtle emphases... To leave those out seems to be leaving out important (to a character junkie) information, but there's no simple, elegant, non-grating way of putting them *in*. I tell myself that *I* as a reader have no trouble generating (re-creating?) all that stuff from the simple words-on-paper (at least, not if the writing and characterization are good to begin with), and I should trust my own readers to do the same thing. I am now telling myself this again. But it's difficult to escape the feeling that I'm leaving some of the most important stuff out. (I do the same thing with facial expressions, which I think I tend to overdescribe, although nobody's complained about that yet, the way they have about the punctuation.) I think what I *really* want is to be able to put a fanfic on the TV screen so everybody can see and hear things exactly as I imagined them, but CGI technology ain't nearly that good yet. :) (And even if it was, I'd probably have absolutely no talent for it, alas.) -- Betty Ragan ** bragan(a)nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov

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Avon, sexism and the whole kit and caboodle
by Cheryl _ 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

I have been reading a large number of an even larger number of posts and I have been interested in the varying opinions of the writers. Due to the fact that I have at times found myself floundering in a sea of terms, expressions and quotes to which I am largely unfamiliar(not being an idiot but perhaps not as well read in the field of philosophy and politics as others on this list may be)I have sometimes had to sign out as a headache often approaches after a while :-) I nonetheless do understand the bulk of the arguments and would finally like to add my own thoughts to these. If you are interested - please read on. I would like to clarify now, that I understand that these are my own opinions and hope this will be okay, so I don't have to keep inserting (IMO). Re: Character Vs Interesting stuff - let me start off by admitting that I am a character junkie - I love the characters - they are essential to the enjoyment and/or interest of a show. Plot is important I will not deny that, however; it is only important if the accompanying dialogue is well expressed - it is the characters themselves who stress the importance of the plot and it is in viewing their actions and reactions that we the viewer become enmeshed in the whole experience. Re: Deliverance, I have already posted on this once but I would like to add a few things: 'Isms' are a part of our society - we see an 'ism' in everything - I can't believe the stress we place on every single action that man takes and when I say man, I refer to mankind collectively as in male and female persons. I am female of man - I see no need to change the term man to person. I am very comfortable with being a woman and I might add a particularly strong woman at that and I am not intimidated by the role that men play in society - I can be very angry by obvious sexist actions and statements but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend my precious years on this planet looking for them. Deliverance is simply a pleasant little story whereupon a technologically advanced male and his male comrades are saved from probable death by a lone female of a dying static society and in gratitude, help her to launch a rocket containing the genetic stock of her people, hopefully to somewhere where their race can continue its survival. Anything else, such as Meegat's need to prostrate herself at Avon's feet etc can be taken anyway you want - I choose to see the reverence in her actions - if others choose to see sexism, fine...but life really is too short. Re: Liking 'Characters' I would like to make a point on the issue of 'what is more important, the words or their delivery' comment and the subsequent responses. Words are basically a means of communication - for those on this planet who do not use words then sounds/signals are the means of communication and to make a point these sounds/signals are stressed in many different ways to send a message. I don't understand any other animal speak except human so I will forgo the other examples - however; if morse code consisted of simply one tone we wouldn't get very far in communication - the same applies for words - they are a handy tool but just that - a tool - to get a message across we use this tool in our delivery and it is to the delivery that we understand and respond. A classic example is the internet - I have found when I have typed something in response to something and I am being(or at least attempting) to be humorous or feeling lighthearted/happy, I feel the need to put a smiling face down as sometimes statements can be terribly ambiguous - however; were I to respond in person, then the recipient of my humour etc, would be able to tell by my tone and facial expressions that I was responding in a light hearted manner, and therefore, hopefully not take offence. Re: Avon apologists - I guess, I slot into that category and for what it's worth - I truly find reasons behind alot of his actions and statements that seem plausible to me. To be honest, if I couldn't, I wouldn't like him - on the surface he is not a likeable character - I guess what we Avon fans see is somewhere just below the surface - something we found and admired in those few brief moments when we saw the mask removed. I guess that's it for now - hopefully no offence was taken as none was intended. Cheryl. _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment?

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Redemption disco theme
by Steve Rogerson 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

Ooops, sorry, we forgot to mention in the Redemption progress reports that we are doing a glam rock and Rocky Horror theme for the disco again on Saturday, so don't forget to bring appropriate costumes. We will also be showing the Rocky Horror video on Sunday evening. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "In my world, there are people in chains and you can ride them like ponies" The alternative Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Sally Manton 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <What I do think, and I'm quite aware that this might be nothing more than a reflection of my own prejudices, is that my distaste for character junkieism (as opposed to those who practice it) lies in what I perceive as a superficial appraisal of the series. There is an exagerrated awareness of differences between individuals, whereas I tend to look for similarities, which in turn leads to the social or, dare I say, the ideological.> Certainly there's a balance to be struck between the two, since leaning too far in the direction of the social - *denying* their individuality in favour of ideological archtypes - would probably end up as superficial as anything a blind Avonite could manage. Not that I'm saying that's what you're doing, but what we have - what we *all* have - is different perceptions of where the balance lies for ourselves. I'm not sure that this is so much a matter of prejudice as merely personal taste. After all, there's also those who spend time and many words in making sense of the physics - the hardware aspect - of the show, which is also a part of the background but which I am *not* much interested in per se (tying the Federation to historical parallels in totalitarian dictatorship, yes. Tying the FTL capabilities of the Liberator to real physics, not really. But that's just me). Do more people lean to the individual rather than the overview? I'm not that sure, going by what I read on this list (on the other list, oh yes :-)). Going over the recent years' archives, there's actually a goodly mixture of *all* types of threads and POVs within the threads (see the dreaded Star One discussions for almost the whole range). Maybe it's just that some of us character junkies burble more ... <There is also a focus on immediate impressions - what is said or done (or worn - now that is what I really do call superficial) - with an implied reluctance to look deeper than the cosmetic surface.> Oh but Neil, and here I am working out a theory of how the changes in Avon's attire over time can represent his relative emotional state :-) But is extrapolating societal or ideological significance from what actually happens on screen *really* any deeper and more meaningful per se than extrapolating an individual's thoughts and emotions from the same evidence? Or is it just a larger screen? Both ways *do* use the same evidence - "what is said or done" - and both *try* to look deeper, but in different directions. I like to turn a microscope onto My Darling; you prefer a magnifying glass on the background. <And that devotion to 'playing the game' - discounting the external contribution of the process of production (writers, directors, actors, budget etc).> Is okay by me as long *as* we all remember it's a game. Then again, so might be second-guessing the people involved in the production. <Which is fine for threads that confine themselves within those limits, but not so fine when it gets dumped on threads that try to step out of those narrow parameters.> Now is that fair? Most of us *aren't* specifically thinking about what particular parameters the thread or our answer comes under, just trying to add our pennysworth (even if inflated at the price) to a discussion we find interesting. And if we *do* think individual characterisation is central to the matter under discussion (as I still do with 'is Avon a sexist pig in Deliverance?' which *was* the post that started it all :-) not 'does Avon represent an chauvinist porcinery in general) then we are not going to approach it from an angle that seems less relevant. Maybe I'm wrong from a non-character-junkie's POV, but I do tend to see it from my own ... <It comes across as deliberate sabotage sometimes.> <sotto voce> Rats. He found out. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Sexism and individuality (Was probably Deliverance at one point)
by Tavia Chalcraft 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

Neil retailed an anecdote of his youth (sorry lost original message) about someone who mistook him on basis of perceived gender for a car mechanic, and implied (I think) that this person's eventual assessment of him as 'bloody useless' became in some fashion part of his 17-years-ago self. I find this extremely odd. I work a lot via telephone and e-mail with men of (self-)perceived high status who often choose to treat me like a secretary. These days I find this rather amusing, and certainly do not feel it reflects on me in the slightest. If people choose to misassess other people on the basis of gender, appearance, job title or whatever, this has no effect whatsoever on the misassessed person (though clearly it reflects on the assessor). Um... surely? Tavia

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Sally Manton 10 Feb '01

10 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <What grates me most in fanfic dialogue is the way many writers try to capture the exact phrasing of lines with lots of superfluous italics and '...'s (forgotten the technical term for them), together with a liberal peppering of adverbs.> I have this sad but seemingly ineradicable fondess for dashes ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 February 2001