Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Marian de Haan 17 Feb '01

17 Feb '01

Morrigan wrote: >I certainly write Cally a lot differently than she evolved in parts of S2 and S3, emphasizing her strengths. I also respectfully point out that the Avon-Blake dynamic is often portrayed quite differently than what one sees in canon.< So I'm not the only one to have noticed that :-) Maybe this is another of B7's attractions - everyone can watch it so comfortably through their own brand of coloured glasses. Marian

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Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #83 - 16 msgs
by Neil Faulkner 17 Feb '01

17 Feb '01

From: Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> > Now I really wonder if you aren't a closet character junkie. Chandler > didn't think much of his own plotting abilities, but liked giving the > hard-boiled detective fiction a literary boost and put a lot into the > character of Marlowe. <g> Yes, but there's also a lot of social commentary, background detail and wonderfully evocative descriptions. Marlowe is a figure in a beautifully rendered landscape. I far prefer that to a beautifully rendered figure against a blank screen. Neil

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 17 Feb '01

17 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/15/01 3:33:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << Pulled one way, pushed the other, I find myself caught in the middle and thus have to resolve the tension by seizing control of B7 and turning it into the series I think it should have been. Of course, a viewer might be attracted by some on-screen relationships that work in the way s/he appreciates, but repelled by others that are considered mishandled, and this too would generate the tension that generates fannishness. >> Although I can understand how that might work for some, I don't normally find myself compelled to write fan fiction because I want to "fix" some aspect of a series I like. I find myself compelled to write fan fiction because I become so caught up in the characters and the show (or perhaps simply some aspect of the characters or the show) that I begin to have ideas for stories. If the ideas are compelling enough, I write stories. Although B7 had "cheap" special effects and I'm well aware of them (and have laughed at them many a time alone and in company), I have never once felt compelled to be fannish or to write fan fiction so that I could "fix" the bad special effects. Annie

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Redemption travel plans
by B7Morrigan＠aol.com 17 Feb '01

17 Feb '01

Dear anyone who knows the answer, I have a question about train travel to the hotel in Ashford. I'm arriving at Gatwick but would like to spend a few hours in London before traveling to Ashford. Does Victoria Station have lockers or a place where one can check bags? Morrigan

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Betty Ragan 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

Neil wrote: > Isn't that what a lot of fanfic is aimed at doing - getting them to 'come > out and talk to each other'? Whereas what makes the characters feel > convincing is the fact that nine times out of ten they do anything but? I would say yes to both. Which is why it's such a delicate balancing act. It can be a real challenge to have the characters address personal and emotional issues while still keeping the characters in-character as their unforthcoming selves. But when it's done well, it's a great joy to read. -- Betty Ragan ** bragan(a)nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/16/01 3:30:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, ragan(a)sdc.org writes: << I think it's more that there are a lot of gaps left unexplored in the show, a lot of possibilities that were hinted at but not a whole lot was done with, a lot of interesting stuff that was never fully developed. So you want to leap in and fill in the gaps. I think that's the sort of think Jenkins was talking about, too. >> Yes, I certainly agree with this. Those gaps and possibilities are the very things that spark off compelling ideas and make you want to write fanfic to fill them in. How many writers have had an urge to write a missing scene or to continue an episode after one has just ended (like "Blake", for instance <g>). Annie

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Re: [B7L] earth mothers
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/15/01 4:12:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << Interesting-- is there any link between this and the movement in feminist Jewish scholarship to rehabilitate Lilith?<< I'm interested to hear this; I've been out of that loop for a while (12 years of Yeshiva was quite enough, thanks). But here's Barbara G. Walker's entry on the topic from her most intriguing 'Women's Encyclopedia.' LILITH Adam's first wife was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belit-ili, or Belili, to Jewish mythology. To the Canaanites, Lilith was Baalat, the "Divine Lady." On a tablet from Ur, ca. 2000 B.C., she was addressed as Lillake. Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tired of coupling with beasts, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen, though the Old Testament declared it a sin (Deuteronomy 27:21). Adam tried to force Lilith to lie beneath him in the "missionary position" favored by male-dominant societies. Moslems were so insistent on the male-superior sexual position that they said, "Accursed be the man who maketh woman heaven and himself earth." Catholic authorities said any sexual position other than the male-superior one is sinful. But Lilith was neither a Moslem nor a Catholic. She sneered at Adam's sexual crudity, cursed him, and flew away to make her home by the Red Sea. God sent angels to fetch Lilith back, but she cursed them too, ignored God's command, and spent her time coupling with "demons" (whose lovemaking evidently pleased her better) and giving birth to a hundred children every day. So God had to produce Eve as Lilith's more docile replacement. //My note here: This is not the author's invention. I did hear this stuff in the detailed commentaries during my years of study in Yeshiva and Agudah camp. Most of the time, it was omitted from what was taught to younger kids of either sex for obvious reasons, much like the racy or dubious content elsewhere in the bible.// Lilith's fecundity and sexual preferences show that she was a Great Mother of settled agricultural tribes, who resisted the invasions of nomadic herdsmen, represented by Adam. Early Hebrews disliked the Great Mother who drank the blood of Abel the herdsman, after his slaying by the elder god of agriculture and smithcraft, Cain. (Genesis 4:11). ...There may have been a connection between Lilith and the Etruscan divinity Leinth, who had no face adn who waited at the gate of the underworld along with Eita and Persipnei (Hades and Persephone) to receive the souls of the dead. The underworld gate was a yoni, and also a lily, which had "no face." Admission into the underworld was often mythologized as a sexual union. The lily or lilu (lotus) was the Great Mother's flower-yoni, whose title formed Lilith's name. The story of Lilith disappeared from the canonical bible, but her daughters the lilium haunted men for over a thousand years. Well into the Middle Ages, the Jews were still manufacturing amulets to keep away the lilium, who were lustful she-demons given to copulating with men in their dreams, causing nocturnal emissions. Naturally, the lilium favored the position of their ancient matriarch. Greeks adopted the lilium and called them Lamiae, Empusae (Forcers-In), or Daughters of Hecate. Christians also adopted them and called them harlots of hell, or succubae, the female counterparts of incubi. Celibate monks tried to fend them off by sleeping with their hands crossed over their genitals, clutching a crucifix. It was said that every time a pious Christian had a wet dream, Lilith laughed. Even if a male child laughed in his sleep, people said Lilith was fondling him. To protect baby boys against her, chalk circles were drawn around cradles with the written names of the three angels God sent to fetch Lilith back to Adam--even though these angels had proved incapable of dealing witih her. Some said men and babies should not be left alone in a house or Lilith might seize them.

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Re: gender and gods
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

> can anybody think of a god who isn't either male or female? Don't know of nueter gods, but there are examples that are both male and female. Hermeaphrodite (I had thought was merely acombined word but) was named after both of 'his' parents, whom 'he' took after, having both male and female organs. Loki, on the other hand, usually presented himself as male but took female shape on various occaisions, and is the mother of Fenris, the Midgard Serpent, and Hel. ObB7> what gods would the characters be? Servalan seems right for Kali, or possibly a goddess of desire and pain who I can't recaqll the name of (Finnish, I think?) Blake: Shiva. Destroying in order to create. Vila: Coyote. Jenna: Possibly Athena? No, I think Rhiannon; the role of pilot translating into rider. Dayna *is* Diana. No question there.

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Re: fanfic
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

> > Someone (Neil?) raised the question of description in fanfic. Do people > > prefer people and backgrounds to be described, and in how much detail? How > > overt does this have to be before it gets annoying? Does anyone have any > > useful hints? I would advise looking at some of your favorite works of professional fic and see if there's a style you'd like to emulate. A paragraph is generally plenty to give us a picture of an important character or setting, with a few extra details perhaps dropped in later on. Minor characters or backgrounds should be described in passing: "As Vila dodged past the guard on the wrong side of the rubbish bins without being seen, he noticed the uniform folded oddly and did a double-take. He'd never noticed a girl in the ranks before. Well, couldn't warn her about the bombs without giving the game away." At this point, if she's to become a player in the game, she might stop Vila, or might take off her helmet to deal with an itchy ear. If not, Vila's thoughts should turn to how much time he has to rendezvous with the others.

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Re: Fannishness
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

I suppose what intrigues me in a show is moral/ethical questions (there being a few Buffyverse sites devoted to this, I can say I spent far more time on thesse sites than any other sites for the fandom), strong characters who approach those questions in different ways (resulting, of course, in clashes), and a certain degree of eloquence, and characters I can admire. Things I have been a fan of: books> The Scarlet Pimpernel, Don Quixote, Raymond Chandler's mysteries, Sherlock Holmes (although, OUCH, worse plot holes than B7), H.P. Lovecraft, the Harper Hall trilogy TV> Doctor Who (in younger days), Blake's 7, ST:TNG & DSN (briefly), Babylon 5, Xena (briefly), Buffy and Angel Comic books> The X-Men, Nightstalkers other media> The Shadow, Jekyll and Hyde (Wildhorn musical), Sting, David Bowie I'm counting pretty much anything I ever A) wrote things about or inspired by B) had a crush on anyone from C) collected *any* form of fan paraphanalia from And in the end I think it's coming down to "they gave me something to think about".

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Blakes7 February 2001