In a message dated 3/1/01 12:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, julia.jones@jajones.demon.co.uk writes:
<< There are lots of things like this scattered through the cultures concerned (and a fair few of the obvious ones date from the different experiences of the World Wars). To me, the culture depicted in B7 is descended from the one on the east side of the pond... >>
But what specific incidents in the Blakes 7 *universe* (not in the production values or the actor's accents) dictate or even show the audience that the people in B7 are all meant to be descended from a British society? You gave a great example of a difference in mindset between Americans and Brits, but how does that relate to B7 itself? We never saw the incident of your example happen on B7...and it doesn't even make sense that we would, because you were relating the mindset back to war-time rationing during World War II. In the society we see in B7, there doesn't seem to be any remembrance of World War II or of "our" world at all. In fact, if there *are* elements in B7 that are distinctly British than I would be interested in knowing *why*. Because, given that the culture supposedly exists far in the future and in what appears to be post-apocalyptic type domes, I would find it hard to believe that British culture of today would have survived. As I pointed out in an earlier post, if you could go back in time a few hundred years, the mindset and the culture would be different in very many ways.
Annie
Annie wrote:
In a message dated 3/1/01 12:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, julia.jones@jajones.demon.co.uk writes:
<< There are lots of things like this scattered through the cultures concerned (and a fair few of the obvious ones date from the different experiences of the World Wars). To me, the culture depicted in B7 is descended from the one on the east side of the pond... >>
But what specific incidents in the Blakes 7 *universe* (not in the production values or the actor's accents) dictate or even show the audience that the people in B7 are all meant to be descended from a British society?
'But *apart* from the roads, the water supply, the working bureaucracy - what have the Romans ever done for us?'
Leaving aside the fact that I don't believe you can dissociate the production environment from the effect of the finished product, how about the premise? Ika pointed this out to me over the weekend, so thanks to her, but I can't think of another country whose public service broadcasting corporation would produce a programme about resistance against an arguably illegitimate goverment when the government of that self-same country is in the middle of a heightened version of such a struggle (late 70s were a bad time in Northern Ireland).
In the society we see in B7, there doesn't seem to be any remembrance of World War II or of "our" world at all.
Apart from the portrayal of a facist regime? Terry Nation puts this into pretty much all his scripts for 'Dr Who' too.
Una
From: Ashton7@aol.com
But what specific incidents in the Blakes 7 *universe* (not in the
production
values or the actor's accents) dictate or even show the audience that the people in B7 are all meant to be descended from a British society?
Actually I thought we were looking for evidence that Federation society is more British in mindset than American.
I think it is, but to go looking for specific incidents in particular episodes is unlikely to turn up anything. The Britishness of the Federation (by which I mean here its ideology, the mindset of its citizens, not its social or political structure) is vague and elusive, wafting through the scripts, unseen but yet subliminally perceptible.
We also have to remember that we are comparing British and American society not as they are, but as they perceive themselves, or wish to see themselves, and the relative importance of ideals common to both.
We have the grade system (which is never challenged by anyone, not even Blake), which can be compared to the British concept of class, far more rigid even today, than it has ever been in America. Such formal and codified social stratification, with the ensuing importance of knowing your place in society, contrasts with the American ideal of equality.
The Federation, for all its aggression, is essentially defensive, clinging on to its Empire. Which is what you might expect from a British TV show made in the 1970s, when at least some writers and actors were old enough to recall the collapse of the British Empire. So that experience of loss translates into a fear of loss and an ambivalence towards the justification of that fear. Compare that with the expansionist ethos of Star Trek which refuses to acknowledge its own colonialism.
A defensive Federation is effectively a guilty Federation, knowing full well that it maintains itself through immoral practice yet unable to acknowledge that, even to itself. But whereas the ST Federation tries to deny the lie by forever trying to outrun it and leave it behind, the B7 Federation is fixed and immobile, just as post-Imperial Britain was trapped on its tiny island. With nowhere to go, it retreats behind masks of cynicism and silence. Federation troopers wear masks, symbolic of the state's disengagement from the populace.
This disengagement hasn't really happened in Britain, though the distance between state and people may have become clearer over the past half century. Masked troopers in black have clear connotations with the Nazism that a young Terry Nation could feel landing round his air raid shelter. Although the American contribution to the war in Europe is unquestionable, it was Britain that came perilously close to being invaded. My own home town, 60 years on, still has a negligible Jewish population. Most fled in 1940 and have never returned. The equation Federation = Nazis is, however, too simple IMO. The collapse of the Third Reich was mirrored in the consequent dismantling of the British Empire, so it is possible for the British to see - as they sometimes do - Nazism as British imperialism writ large. We, the conquerors of the Nazis (because Britain won the war, after all, ha-ha) are ourselves petty nazis of a kind, who have in our turn been defeated by history. The Federation thus becomes not just an image of an evil regime, but also of what might have been - A German conquest of Britain - and what might also yet prove to be, the latent nazism in the British psyche. Blake thus becomes (as a fictional character) a redeemer of the national conscience, or within the milieu of the show as a redeemer of Federation conscience, as opposed to Kirk as vindication of the ideological ideal both within the Star Trek milieu and beyond it.
So that's why I think the B7 characters are 'British' in terms of their mindset, as opposed to their descent. The Federation is in a position analogous to that of Britain in the wake of the Second World War, and just as that affected the British psyche (including that of the writers, actors etc), so too does it affect the psyche of the Federation and its citizens - including most of the regular characters.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if you had to be British to see it, let alone appreciate it.
Neil
Annie said:
Because, given that the culture supposedly exists far in the future and in what appears to be post-apocalyptic type domes, I would find it hard to believe that British culture of today would have survived.
If I were British, I might hesitate to ascribe aspects of my own culture to a vicious dictatorship.
-(Y)
In message 011201c0a332$8c544880$f080590c@dshilling, Dana Shilling dshilling@worldnet.att.net writes
Annie said:
Because, given that the culture supposedly exists far in the future and in what appears to be post-apocalyptic type domes, I would find it hard to believe that British culture of today would have survived.
If I were British, I might hesitate to ascribe aspects of my own culture to a vicious dictatorship.
Except that if you *were* British, you probably wouldn't hesitate... We (I think I'll be British this evening) are commonly quite capable of facing up to the nastier elements of our history. _1984_ was written in reaction to the political situation in Britain in 1948. Swift's _Gulliver's Travels_ and _A Modest Proposal_ are searing political satire.