And now for something completely different...
In light of speculation about fanfic where Garac tortures Avon or Avon tortures Garak, I was wondering, what is it about Hurt/Comfort fiction that fans seem to pick certain characters most often to be tormented, tortured and hurt? Why Avon rather than Blake? And if you say "he suffers beautifully", that isn't an answer. What makes Avon's suffering more appealing than Blake's? The scenario in hurt/comfort is that one character is hurt and the other one comforts him. And it's usually Avon and Blake.
I thought, perhaps it's because Avon needs to be tormented in order to Admit That He Cares, or for him to Accept Comfort, since he's so stoic and unexpressive that he wouldn't admit it otherwise. Certainly Blake doesn't need any extraordinary events for *him* to say that he cares (he's very quick to call them his friends).
But then I considered the popular victims in other universes, and that pattern doesn't fit. In The Sentinel, it's Blair (the non-stoic emoting caring one) who gets tormented and Jim (the stoic, non-emoting one) who is the comforter, and who is forced to Admit That He Cares. In Stargate, the victim is Daniel (again, not a stoic) and the comforter is Jack (more stoic than Daniel is at any rate).
Then I realized the common denominator of all three victims; they're all intellectuals, geeks. Not that Blake isn't a philosopher, but you've got to admit that Avon is more geeky than Blake. And with the others the difference is even more obvious.
So why is it that the H/C writers have it in for geeks?
Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "If you don't cause an electrical failure, you're not an alien." -- Paul Michael Agapow during "The Abyss" at the Valhalla 24-hour SF marathon (9-2-91)
Kathryn Andersen asked:
what is it about Hurt/Comfort fiction that fans seem to pick certain characters most often to be tormented, tortured and hurt?
1. I think that, to a significant extent, h/c is a way for readers to feel really sorry for themselves, and vicariously be taken care of 2. IMO, more readers identify with Avon than identify with Blake (which is different from ideological advocacy and/or lust) 3. If you wanted someone to fuss over you, you'd certainly think Blake would do a better job than Avon (who, if he were your beta reader, would actually tell you what he thought of your story, whereas Blake would tell you it was brilliant). Offhand, the only person less likely as a comforter would be Servalan.
-(Y)
"Dana Shilling" dshilling@worldnet.att.net wrote:
Kathryn Andersen asked:
what is it about Hurt/Comfort fiction that fans seem to pick certain characters most often to be tormented, tortured and hurt?
- I think that, to a significant extent, h/c is a way for readers to feel
really sorry for themselves, and vicariously be taken care of 2. IMO, more readers identify with Avon than identify with Blake (which is different from ideological advocacy and/or lust) 3. If you wanted someone to fuss over you, you'd certainly think Blake would do a better job than Avon (who, if he were your beta reader, would actually tell you what he thought of your story, whereas Blake would tell you it was brilliant). Offhand, the only person less likely as a comforter would be Servalan.
-(Y)
What about Travis (Oh dear the blaster went off again...)
Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Jacqui said (about unsuitable comforters):
What about Travis (Oh dear the blaster went off again...)
Fell right into the trap, Jacqui. Travis really has suffered, which I think would give him a degree of fellow-feeling-- whereas Servalan "jests at scars that never felt a wound."
-(Y)
"Dana Shilling" dshilling@worldnet.att.net wrote:
Jacqui said (about unsuitable comforters):
What about Travis (Oh dear the blaster went off again...)
Fell right into the trap, Jacqui. Travis really has suffered, which I think would give him a degree of fellow-feeling-- whereas Servalan "jests at scars that never felt a wound."
-(Y)
I meant in the context of Blake.
OK then - Dorian __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
From: Dana Shilling dshilling@worldnet.att.net
Kathryn Andersen asked:
what is it about Hurt/Comfort fiction that fans seem to pick certain characters most often to be tormented, tortured and hurt?
- I think that, to a significant extent, h/c is a way for readers to feel
really sorry for themselves, and vicariously be taken care of 2. IMO, more readers identify with Avon than identify with Blake (which is different from ideological advocacy and/or lust) 3. If you wanted someone to fuss over you, you'd certainly think Blake would do a better job than Avon (who, if he were your beta reader, would actually tell you what he thought of your story, whereas Blake would tell you it was brilliant). Offhand, the only person less likely as a comforter would be Servalan.
My take on h/c is completely different. I did an article on it in AltaZine 3, where I proposed that the Patient (usually Avon) is the actual character, but the Nurse (the comforter) was a surrogate for the writer/reader - a kind of Mary-Sue in disguise. I think this works (at least some of the time) for stories where the Nurse role is filled by Cally or Vila, at any rate. The dynamic here is one of levelling off - or reversing - a perceived imbalance of power to facilitate access to the Patient. Both Cally and Vila can be regarded as 'weaker' than Avon, until Avon is debilitated and needs to be nursed to recovery.
Cheryl wrote: <Maybe it's because these characters ...are always in control of situations that call for clear thought, that the writers find them perfect candidates for situations where their intellect not only can't help them but actually suffers along with the physical because they find themselves in this situation > and for A-C/A-V I think this is spot on. The physical impairment might even act as a metaphor for the intellectual impairment, either standing in for it or exagerrating it.
(In the original article I referred to the Victim rather than the Patient, but in retrospect I think Patient is more applicable).
The process of debilitation can be important and might often be regarded as symbolic (though not necessarily of a phallic object) and there might well be some unwritten rules underlying the way in which it can happen. The most transparent one I can think of is a story in an old Horizon zine where Avon gets a high-tech widget literally embedded in him. What's the widget called? A 'rectifier'...
I don't know if it's signficant that the impairment might occur while the intended Patient is acting or working alone.
I would expect head injuries, brain damage, permanent disfigurements and amputations to be very rare or non-existent in such stories (though I've not read enough to say for certain, since I hate the bloody things). 'Embarassing' injuries might also be included (though I can see how they might be deliberately selected by some writers). The debilitating process is one from which the Patient can make a complete physical recovery, because the recovery is the process by which the Patient undergoes the necessary emotional growth to meaningfully bond with the Nurse (who, as I've already suggested, is really the author and/or reader).
Basically, A-C or A-V h/c fic is about the symbolic death of a cold, arrogant, supercilious bastard and his symbolic rebirth as an understanding nice guy.
A-B is probably a bit different, because there is no imbalance of power to level off. There is, however, perceived to be a gulf of mutual understanding to be bridged (though personally I don't think it was all that wide or all that deep and neither of them wanted to bridge it anyway). Slash is one way of bridging the gap (if we take the sex in A/B slash to be at least in part a metaphor), h/c is another.
It may be so that more readers identify with Avon than with Blake, though I don't recall seeing any poll results. I suspect that the readers' relation with Avon might be very complex, with identification, attraction and repulsion all operating at variable strengths. In A-C or A-V stories, the attraction would be the most important - h/c is a means of getting emotional access to Avon, who is in a state that prohibits him from shrugging off or actively blocking that access. In A-B ... well, I have never understood the fascination for this supposed A-B dynamic, so I won't speculate on who might be identifying with whom.
Neil
Neil said:
The dynamic here is one of levelling off - or reversing - a perceived
imbalance
of power to facilitate access to the Patient. Both Cally and Vila can be regarded as 'weaker' than Avon, until Avon is debilitated and needs to be nursed to recovery. [...] (In the original article I referred to the Victim rather than the Patient, but in retrospect I think Patient is more applicable).
"Patient" is Latin for "sufferer" anyway and has the same root as "passive."
I would expect head injuries, brain damage, permanent disfigurements and amputations to be very rare or non-existent in such stories
Depends on which side you're on--Travis' permanent disfigurement is somewhat echoed in "Blake," too
Slash is one way of bridging the gap (if we take the sex in A/B slash to
be
at least in part a metaphor), h/c is another.
In my reading, though, Avon has both good and bad reasons for refusing to reveal vulnerability to Blake, who is lover, beloved, and rival simultaneously-- he cares much less what Vila thinks of him (and whether Vila is upset about his having been hurt) than about Blake's reactions.
It may be so that more readers identify with Avon than with Blake, though
I
don't recall seeing any poll results.
They might not be accurate--it's much more respectable to identify with Blake (and we seem to have an irresistible compulsion to manipulate election results anyway).
-(Y)
On Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 09:03:12AM -0000, Neil Faulkner wrote:
From: Dana Shilling dshilling@worldnet.att.net
Kathryn Andersen asked:
what is it about Hurt/Comfort fiction that fans seem to pick certain characters most often to be tormented, tortured and hurt?
My take on h/c is completely different. I did an article on it in AltaZine 3, where I proposed that the Patient (usually Avon) is the actual character, but the Nurse (the comforter) was a surrogate for the writer/reader - a kind of Mary-Sue in disguise. I think this works (at least some of the time) for stories where the Nurse role is filled by Cally or Vila, at any rate. The dynamic here is one of levelling off - or reversing - a perceived imbalance of power to facilitate access to the Patient. Both Cally and Vila can be regarded as 'weaker' than Avon, until Avon is debilitated and needs to be nursed to recovery.
[snip]
Basically, A-C or A-V h/c fic is about the symbolic death of a cold, arrogant, supercilious bastard and his symbolic rebirth as an understanding nice guy.
A-B is probably a bit different, because there is no imbalance of power to level off. There is, however, perceived to be a gulf of mutual understanding to be bridged (though personally I don't think it was all that wide or all that deep and neither of them wanted to bridge it anyway). Slash is one way of bridging the gap (if we take the sex in A/B slash to be at least in part a metaphor), h/c is another.
This is fascinating stuff, Neil.
However this doesn't fit the other examples I've seen in other fandoms, where the Nurse is the cold, arrogant bastard, and the Patient is the one who seems to have the "weaker" role to start with.
But again perhaps it is *still* about the symbolic death of a cold, arrogant bastard and his symbolic rebirth as an understanding nice guy -- but the person in question is the Nurse. His cold, outer shell is cracked by being forced to Nurse the Patient. Or, as someone else said on this thread in regard to Blake, the Nurse is someone who suffers by watching others suffer, and therefore the way to break down their barriers is to make their friend(s) suffer.
This actually fits the other examples, since the favourite Nurse characters are stoic types to whom personal pain and torture isn't all that much of a big deal, the type who will either endure, or spit in their captor's eye. Loyal types who care about their friends, but don't always say so...
Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Life isn't all fricassied frog and eel pie. -Puddleglum the Marshwiggle
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Dana Shilling -
jacquispeel＠netscape.net -
Kathryn Andersen -
Neil Faulkner