----- Original Message ----- From: Helen Krummenacker avona@jps.net To: blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

I said:

...

But would you, if it had gone that way? Neil has made several rational, intelligent posts lately on the subject of why he considers H/C to

resemble

...

S/M. Very few people have actually posted in to say "OK, Neil, I see

your

...

point," or "OK, Neil, but you're overlooking..."

Actually, I haven't said "Neil, yyou have a point", because I'm a non-reader of H/C who started with the assumption it was a sort of S/M. Since those who enjoy it have said it isn't, I've been trying to grasp where the actual, primary appeal lies to them. Since I started out in accord with those thinking it was S/M, I am more interested in stretching my mind understand why it is not. Since the people who like H/C have not said insulting things about those who aren't readers and writers of it, I have listened to them with a more open mind than I would if they were rude.

Hm, debatable point... I actually saw a lot of the people who like h/c being at least as rude to Wendy as she was to them (you can argue that they were provoked, but I've said earlier that this doesn't excuse it to my mind). I also, as I said, saw a lot of people who liked h/c launcing into the discussion with categorical denials ("H/C is NOT S/M! BAD FIONA! BAD NEIL! NEVER SAY THIS IS SO!") or false analogies (Hamlet? Beautiful suffering? Can be played that way, but Hamlet can be played *any* way imaginable... bitter and unlikable... cold and rational... round the twist...). Which has, actually, made me even *less* kindly disposed to h/c as a genre than before.

And anyway, if it *is* S/M, what of it? I'm given to understand that S/M is considered an acceptable form of sexual expression these days... that is, if the erotica shelf in the Oxford Waterstones is anything to go by... I'm a little surprised that no one has come in to say "Yes, it's S/M, and I *like* it!"

Fiona

The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net

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