At 12:39 2-2-01 -0800, Penberriss Wendy S. wrote:
--- Jacqueline Thijsen inquisitioner@wish.net wrote:
Actually, what seems to have gotten several people (including myself) somewhat peeved is that Wendy seemed to be saying: "It is ridiculous to say that Deliverance is not sexist."
What I meant to say was, it is ridiculous not to say that Deliverance doesn't, for whatever reason, contain sexist elements and themes. And that it strikes me as disturbing that a story which does contain such themes continually makes the top-ten lists of intelligent, aware, female fans.
And here you're doing it again, I'm afraid. You take it as given that Deliverance contains sexist themes, and measure the reactions of other fans by assuming that they must have seen those themes, too. Well, I haven't, or at least not in the way you seem to have done. The "relationship" between Meegat and Avon strikes me as amusing rather that sexist (I do love his expression at her worshipful attitude) and my reaction to the hairy barbarians is pretty much the same as Neil's. I just groan and wait for the good bits of the episode.
I also have some trouble with how she and Neil equal seeing Avon's good points to whitewashing Avon.
Can't speak for Neil, but it's not the seeing of Avon's good points I object to. It is the fact that some people persist in seeing/portraying him as having no bad points.
I've been on the lyst for almost three years now, and I don't remember ever seeing that portrayal. I've seen several people explaining specific bad behavior in a good way and in some cases I even agreed with them, but I don't think anyone on this lyst ever called Avon a saint. Well, not seriously, anyway. As a matter of fact, Neil called him a rat, and around the same time I called one of my pet rats after him. My other rat is called Vila and it lives up to its name by constantly trying to steal treats from Avon rather than getting one for itself.
Seeing Blake display some "bad" behavior
sometimes comes as a definite relief to me.
Funny you should say that, cause one other thing I see a lot which I don't like is people who can't see Blake as other than bad.
I haven't seen that, either. I have seen people point out that Blake had his ruthless side and some other bad points, too, but that's not the same as saying that he has no good points.
But that's a whole nother thread :-).
When has this ever stopped any of us? Lessee, Blake's bad points are his tendency towards ruthlessness (which I actually rather like at times) and his blatant disregard for the wishes of his crew when said wishes interfere with his plans to overthrow the Federation. His good points: well, can you think of anyone else who could hold that bunch together *and* get them to participate in such anti survival oriented pastimes as blowing up central control?
Anybody else wanna add anything to that? Or tell me that I'm out off my mind? The latter isn't necessary, BTW, I already know that.
Jacqueline