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Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #41 - 16 msgs
by Helen Krummenacker 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

> > Meegat continues > > to view technology with awe, even when she's had a pretty good look at how > > it works-- and as other people have said, it's a bit odd that nobody in her > > society thought of flicking a switch to see what happens. > > And it's puzzled me when they've said it - flipping switches at random > is begging for something to go wrong. These people didn't even have > electricity; why wouldn't they view something as complex as a rocket > launching with awe? I'm relatively certain that I couldn't walk into a > deserted mission control and figure out how to launch a Saturn V without > any instructions. > > Mistral Well, actually, I think the realistic thing would be for Avon to be unable to launch the rocket, because someone who knew next to nothing about technology had figured out how to make a screwdriver, gotten into the panels, pulled out too many wires, undone some of the lights (which were then used to make jewelry or something) and left the machinery she hadn't butchered on, causing the power to run out. I didn't say that pressing a few buttons they'd *succeed* in launching the rocket. I just stated that they *would* flick switches. People are inclined to fiddle with things, try to solve puzzles, and try to make the best use they can out of the resources they have available.

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Re: characters vs interesting stuff
by Helen Krummenacker 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

INTx here. Character junkie-- I'd had given the show cursory viewing for the plot-- rebels vs. big, bad empire + exploring the universe is interesting. But given gaping plot holes, oft shoddy science, garage-born specifial effects, I probably wouldn't have given it much time if the complexity of character interaction and terrific dialog hadn't snared me. In fact, I became a Blake's 7 addict watching it on a black & white screen full of 'snow' because the broadcasting station was on the other side of some mountains. Come to think of it, the dialogue and characters were the only thing I could fully appreciate at the time. I gave up on Star Trek because the characters didn't seem to develop.

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Re: Leadership-- Cally
by Helen Krummenacker 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

> Cally never struck me as the leader type. She could be independent but, > once she had identified with a cause, I think she prefered working along > side someone to taking the lead herself (at least when working with > humans). > I see her as being perfectly willing to follow someone who is working *for the cause*, and thus, it was perfectly sensible for her to go along with Blake's leadership in most situations. But when Blake disappeared, it is Cally the good-natured mystic rather than Cally-the-warrior (whom I prefer) who has to be the core of Cally *simply* to allow her *not* to attempt a leadership role. Whether or not she wants to lead, she wants the Federation's expansion stopped. It was pretty clear that was not Avon's main goal during the 3rd season. It would have made sense for her to gain more influence during that time, if her character had not lost most of her drive. Jenna, however, was not in a position to be likely to become a long-term leader. She seems to prefer being a team player. Being an expert smuggler does not necessarily make one a leader, and even when she clashed with Avon, it was on loyalty to the team over opportunism. Since she left the ship at the same time as Blake, she had no opportunity to take advantage of the restructuring of power on the ship.

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Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow & B7 movie
by Harriet Monkhouse 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Marian wrote: >The program was about "parties of international > allure". (Apparently the TVcrew in question have >managed to persuade their boss to dosh out money for >letting them cover posh parties all over the world.) So Avon doesn't count as a party of international allure in his own right? Harriet

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by J MacQueen 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

I'm beginning to wonder if we should be grateful that Meegat wasn't an avatar of Zuul (as in Ghostbusters). "Are you a god?" Vila says no. "Then....DIE!" There might not have been the opportunity for Avon to whack Vila across the head and tell him the answer should've been yes. Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character' (OT)
by Tavia Chalcraft 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Alison and Penny: >>But in real life if they >>are confronted with a black person who (say) explains quantum mechanics to >>them, they don't have this escape do they? Real life puts a bomb under >>preconceptions. >I don't think it usually works that way. Sincere belief is impervious to >both logic and empirical evidence. In real people you can always find real flaws >(maybe your hypothetical black genius has an unpleasant odour--then >hypothetically racist me can think "so 'They' *can* be quite clever, but >only at the cost of personal hygiene...I shudder to think what her house >must look like and just imagine her poor neglected children--we should >really discourage 'Them' aspiring to such heights if these are the social >costs" etc.). I once overheard some conversation from a racist at a conference. He said repeatedly that -- in his experience of working in research establishments in Zimbabwe -- negroes were incapable of scientific thought, while Indians could make good scientists. He talked of numerous specific (negro) individuals in scientific positions who in his opinion were incapable of doing their job, ie, he wasn't talking in the abstract he was extrapolating from real experience with real people. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Subtext vs Character, or would Mr Humphries have pushed the right buttons?
by Natasa Tucev 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: Frankly, once you get >down to the areas of biology that culture cannot reach, reason doesn't enter >into it. No, but maybe your instincts or feelings can give some feedback to your reason, when your reason cannot help or when you just don't have enough data to quarrel with your culture efficiently. This is why I like the story about Blake so much. Blake was brainwashed and his knowledge, his political philosophy, his past experience - everything that could rationally suggest to him that the Federation was wrong and that it should be opposed - was gone. But he was still human. The conditioning couldn't get that far. He still loved his family and was ready to transgress the law, go outside the dome, because of them. This was the standpoint from which he was able to resist his conditioning. Pure bodily resistance to a culture is I think also possible - like in the novel 'Life and Times of Michael K.', where the hero, a retarded African, throws up all the food he is given in the prison camp. The only food he can eat are the pumpkins he grows on his farm and which he calls 'the food of freedom'. (You can compare this to Blake who, because of his conditioning, does not recognize 'the food of freedom' and spits the water he's tasted outside the dome. This is the first sign to us that something is wrong with him.) >> Winston's mother conveys a very important notion in the book. The >governing >> ideology of Winston's world claims that one's greatest loyalties should >lie >> with the state, Party and Big Brother. Winston's mother was able to resist >> this system, not because she was well educated in history or politics, but >> because she gave supremacy to her private loyalties - her family and >> children. This is a very primitive, un-intellectual notion, but it >actually >> implies a way to remain human. > >OK, but I wouldn't call that resistance. Again, this is *withdrawal*-- >Winston's mother refuses to engage with her society, withdrawing into her >family, rather than resisting it. OK, so she isn't a Blakish-style revolutionary. But I wasn't talking about that. Before you try with revolutions, reforms, concrete attempts to change your culture, you have to be aware that something is wrong with it in the first place. If you are completely trapped within your social and cultural role, completely blinded by your culture's ideology, then you can't even see what you ought to fight against. Winston's mother found a successful way of resisting such complete brainwashing, such complete submergence into the system. By 'resistance' I mean resisting the attempts of your culture to possess you completely. Winston is, however, incapable of resisting his >> culture by resorting to this same instinctive, emotional core of his >being, >> because the inhuman society in which he lives has conditioned him too >> thoroughly: when, after a bombing, he sees a human hand in the street, he >> simply kicks it aside. > >The idea, IIRC, is that it is beaten out of him, but reawakens when he meets >Julia-- but is then beaten out of him again. Orwell's point seems to be that >even love cannot withstand the type of brutality which the state is using. Not exactly. Winston fails as a human being even before he's arrested. Remember when he declares he is ready to do anything to bring down the Party - kill hundreds of innocent people, distribute habit-forming drugs, spread venereal diseases, throw acid in a child's face, if need be? He wants to fight the system, but the system has already transformed him and defeated him completely. Proles, on the other hand, are incapable of starting an effective rebellion, but they keep the human heritage alive. For Orwell, this is a very important notion and therein lies the only hope in the book. N.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Marian de Haan 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Sally wrote: >After Dayna wrote: ><Well, yes. But IMO, this one was very well adapted for Avon (presumably by Chris Boucher?), and "Animals" didn't work in large part precisely *because* it didn't fit with Dayna in Cally's role (sorry, Una!).> >Agreed, Deliverance *was* well adapted - non eof Avon's lines come over as Blake-ish, and Vila's chorus bit (which would *never* have been the same had it been Blake) has clearly been expanded. You'd never know from the episode that there was such a big last-minute change.< Does anyone know how "last minute" the change was? And I've heard two versions about the reason for the change: 1) Blake had to be the one to go after Orac and couldn't do that if he was sick from the radiation. 2) Gareth Thomas was unavailable for the shooting. Of course, both reasons can have applied. >Animals ... umm, well, Dayna does have all those very Cally-ish lines, and that relationship with <shudder> Justin ...< Frankly, I think the story wouldn't have worked with Cally either. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow & B7 movie
by Marian de Haan 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Nicoline wrote: >A friend just told me that Paul Darrow was interviewed on Dutch tv (Veronica) last week, apparently talking about the B7 movie. She doesn't know any details. Has anybody else seen it?< It was the week before last. I didn't see it but heard about it from a colleague. She'd been zapping and when she heard the name Avon, she stopped to watch, knowing about my obsession. (I've got very nice colleagues.) Regrettably she didn't have a videotape ready to record it. The program was about "parties of international allure". (Apparently the TV crew in question have managed to persuade their boss to dosh out money for letting them cover posh parties all over the world.) My collegue didn't catch which party this was. I think it may have been the premiere of Xmen, for I know that Paul was there and did talk about the B7 movie, but that's just a guess. Marian

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Re: Subtext vs Character
by Marian de Haan 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

To me characters and plot are equally important. Good character interaction can't save a bad plot and out-of-character presentation of our heroes will ruin the most brilliant plot. It's the high quality of most of the fanfiction that I've read which led me to the supposition that discerning editors would have rejected a fair amount of the B7 scripts if they'd been submitted to them as fanfiction :-) Marian

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