Blakes7 June 2001

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61 participants
258 discussions

T-shirt images
by Steve Rogerson 13 Jun '01

13 Jun '01

I have B7 T-shirts in my collection with individual images of Avon, Jenna and Vila on the front, plus a jokey combined one with Avon, Servalan and Vila. The question is, why has no-one ever produced a T-shirt with Blake on the front? -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Take it To the Limit
by Sally Manton 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Dana wrote: <However, even though canon doesn't give us a very clear back-story, I think that the Freedom Party did take some violent actions that had a certain degree of success--Blake wasn't just, for instance, running a printing press for subversive documents.> Oh I agree, but it was the subversion rather than the violence that was what was getting the authorities in such a lather over him. And his popular appeal, that made them so concerned to avoid killing or being seen to victimise him (something that didn't worry them a whole lot over *other* dissidents). <But perhaps a limiter can also affect an intellectual decision to take violent action.> There does seem to *be* the necessity for intent as well as emotion with Gan, but the reverse as well. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] avon and sense
by Alison Page 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Dana said - >In the original discussion, >"sense" meant something like "emotion," Oh, I misunderstood the post before I accidentally deleted it then. I thought that whoever-it-was was using MBTI and talking about feeling and sense as separate things. However I might have been projecting my own stuff onto the discussion in that case. Anyway, I'm talking about sense as in physical sensory acuity. Not really 'sex' which seems to cover all aspects of self: thought, emotion, sense and imagination. I mean you can derive pleasure on any of those vectors, so nobody is left out :-) >It is also entirely possible for someone to >be highly sensual (in a sexual context or otherwise) without >simultaneously being kind, warm-hearted, nice, etc. Absolutely. At least as likely as the alternative I'd say. >The situation does offer some limited options for having >a good time, and IMO Avon takes full advantage of them. Also 'life is sweet' as they say, when it is most endangered. But what constitutes 'enjoyment' as far as Avon is concerned? How much evidence is there on screen of Avon enjoying sensual stuff? Ice cream on freedom city. But I may be ignoring obvious examples just because they don't fit my mental picture. I think it can be a fault of intellectual types, to concentrate on the pleasure of triumphing, and not the enjoyment of the prize. 'Getting and spending we lay waste our powers' - some on getting, some on spending. >My main fannish activity is writing fanfic Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to put anyone on the spot about fanfiction. Alison

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Re: [B7L] Travis not wheelchair accessible
by Murray 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Steven, >They're also disposable. One of the interesting things >about Travis is that he has some fugitive stirrings of >conscience on occasion. I agree with you concerning his stirrings of conscience. Also, at least until _Trial_, he is a dedicated Federation officer, prepared to sacrifice his life if it meant the destruction of the Federation's enemies, inlcuding Blake. In 'Seek-Locate-Destroy' he orders the troopers to open fire, and not to wory about hitting him; in 'Pressure Point', he was prepared to let Servalan be killed as long as he could kill Blake. Servalan, in contrast, only cared about saving her own skin. >> He's turned his missing hand into a weapon. Is he >> trying to *become* the >> weapon he's trained to be? (They might have done >> something with his eye >> then, made it useful for something, a laser tracking >> device maybe. I can >> see a handy red-eyed "Terminator" style >> modification.) > >I think that Travis is a kind of humanoid dalek. He >has allowed himself to be dehumanised and turned into >a killing machine. It's a fairly old (and incredibly >unfair) dramatic convention to show evil people as >somehow physically flawed, in order to counterpoint >their mental and moral flaws. Changing attitudes towards physically disabled people, with efforts being made to bring them into ordinary society as much as possible, ensuring that they have better access to education and employment, has certainly made this dramatic convention unfair. I now look at such portrayals of evil people with physical flaws in a new light, one of annoyance and amusement, wondering if they could complain about being discriminated against on the grounds of disability.<bg> Murray

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Travis Acts
by Steve Rogerson 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

A fan has written to me asking if I know where one can get a copy of the Travis Acts, a play with Brian Croucher playing Travis. I've never heard of this. Can anyone help? -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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ignore me
by Steve Rogerson 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Ignore this message, just testing new email software -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Take it To the Limit
by Sally Manton 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Dana wrote: <If the Federation had only one limiter, or only a few, why not implant it in Blake, whose violent impulses were likely to cause a lot more damage than Gan's?> Three possibles ... 1. Blake's real crime - and in particular, his threat in the eyes of the Federation - wasn't as a violent criminal, it was as a political dissenter with a dangerous level of popular appeal. The limiter as it stands would have no real effect on that threat (perhaps - had it been a success at the rather crude level it's currently operating on - the Powers-That-Be could have authorised a development program to try and make it work against other undesirable impulses). 2. The limiter appears to work on a mixture of emotion ('The limiter is supposed to cut in when stress drives him to the point where he might kill.' - Blake, Breakdown) and intent (Gan can still fight perfectly well). The former is the problem - Blake doesn't kill in an emotional state, from the beginning he is able to *separate* himself from his emotions where violence is concerned (his quite scarey detachment in 'Blake' is just this ability pushed further along). It's quite possible that the effect of the limiter would therefore be muffled. Though it's an interesting point - as a leader in a battle, would someone with a limiter be able to order Vila to destroy another ship with people on? Or fire the neutron blasters himself? 2. Blake is a high-profile prisoner in both instances, proven by the lengths the PWB will go to to try and ensure he is not seen as a victim. The first time, the purpose is to make it look like a voluntary 'return to the fold', something that would be a little hard to make plausible if everyone can see a metal control sticking out of his head :-) The second time (TWB) they're out to trash his reputation then consign him - still alive, to avoid the martyrdom angle - to a planetary he can't possible ever come back from. Blake always needed special treatment, because of his status (I doubt many people were important enough for the full mindwipe treatment he received). Gan is essentially nobody. Judith wrote: <There's also the theory that Gan's limiter was experimental, though I'm not sure if I buy that as Kane certainly recognised it.> As I've said, I do consider the limiter to have been an experimental thing, and Gan one of the nameless lab rats selected simply because his criminal record showed he killed in a fit of fury and was therefore the proper material to work with. This being Kane's field, and Kane being an admirer of the way the Federation did things, he could well have kept up with what developments the Federation were carrying out in that area (it certainly *wasn't* secret work, though Vila's seeming ignorance indicates it also wasn't highly publicised). <And, by the way, why did the Federation have to go to the trouble of actually conditioning kids to believe that they were molested by Blake?> 'To give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative' ... (possibly misquoted :-) but you get the idea. They're trying to destroy someone already showing worrying signs of indestructibility; they're probably aware that there are going to be doubters, so they're making absolutely sure that the reality of evidence (the children themselves) can't be questioned. It's just one more administrative step, after all ... And it was all for nothing, since no one in the galaxy appeared to have *bought* the story once he became the Public Face of the Rebellion ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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H&H: Cally as Waif
by Sally Manton 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Dana wrote: <Oh, I don't know - about the first thing Avon says to Cally is that if she had hurt Blake, he would have killed her. He doesn't look like he's kidding about it.> No, but there is a spark there that is sadly lacking later - loook at the way they're *looking* at each other (especially Cally's smile). <And neither he nor Jenna seems able to get past the fact that she's an alien.> That comes from the way she ran amuck in The Web (for Avon, at least; Jenna does seems rather hostile beforehand) and yes, he gets really hostile there for a while - the way he grabs her face is fairly savage. But they both get over it faster than I would imagine is normal for Snarly. Me: <Of the three people he's closest to in the crew, two of them - Blake and Cally -> and Dana: <I think he's much closer to Vila than to Cally.> Give you three guesses who was third (and I do agree with you.) It makes it all more interesting *that* the third is the most un-crusader-ish of Our Heroes by a trillion miles; there are of course a lot of other reasons why he finds these people attractive, each in their own way, but it is notable that the person who pours most scorn on crusades does have these stronger ties to the crusaders themselves. And Helen: <Another possibility, of course, is a telepathic link being created. <snip> still, it might make Avon more inclined to trust fully.> No wish to offend, *purely* mine own opinion, but I have to say I think it would IMO drive him literally insane. The idea of having *anyone* able to read his mind would be intolerable to someone as private and as inclined to shields and misdirection as he is. It's bad enough that Blake and Vila can read him so well as it is (see that lovely moment in Breakdown, where they tumble to why he's got a list of boltholes). <the mind may be harder to censor than the mouth> Exactly. And that censorship is very very important to him ... I love Avon, but I have to say that IMO if he ever thought Cally or anyone else *could* actually get inside his mind, he'd quickly come to hate her. Even want to kill her. Or even himself, if there was no other escape. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Travis not wheelchair accessible
by Ellynne G. 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

As far as Travis' injuries go, disfiguring injuries can be as traumatic as disabling ones - sometimes more so. That's why there are support groups for women who've had mastectomies. Certainly Travis' injuries are disfiguring. We don't know whether the Federation stigmatizes disfigured people, but it would be a good bet. We don't see many people with serious injuries or deformities, but the three I can think of were all disabled as adults (Travis, Hal Melanby, and Ardus [I got the impression he'd gone blind in his old age, but I'm not positive (and am I getting his name right?]). Furthermore, they were Alpha level adults with proven skills. Ardus and Travis had a proven value to the state. Also, Ardus and Hal were not disfigured (since the Federation may have wanted Hal dead anyway, his survival may not say much about his culture, but _somebody_ was manufacturing sight aids). Certainly, Travis seems to act as though his injuries have cut him off from mainstream society. If there's subtle social pressure for him to retire from life (literally or figuratively), his vendetta may be all that keeps him going (and gives a new twist to Servalan saying there's no freedom like being a dead man [paraphrasing, I know], at least from his POV). Then, there are still questions about how good his prosthetics are. How's sensory input? Can he feel? Judging by Melanby and Ardus, prosthetics for the blind are imperfect at best. Is other sensory input limited or nonexistant? Does he suffer phantom pain? How does he feel having lost _his own_ legs and arm? Oh, and (sorry to be a little blunt here) but, speaking of mastectomies, did he suffer any other injuries which a man might consider similarly traumatic? And no wonder he had the weapon built into his hand. Without good vision in his lost eye (assuming the eye patch was some kind of artificial aid, it probably wasn't better than Melanby's), his depth perception's shot, a major weakness in a shoot out. Why not build a compensating device and incorporate it into his arm? It's basic unusualness would keep anyone from comparing it to a regular gun and noticing nonstandard issue features. Making it a part of him gives it an aura of threat that would keep anyone from questioning why he has it. Yet, as a brightly colored ring, it's the closest we see him come to clothes oriented vanity - something otherwise out of character. Come to think of it, part of Travis' breaking point is when his supposedly deadly arm becomes anything but - and when Blake, having seen it stripped and useless, dismisses Travis as not worth killing (yes, we know what Blake meant, but what was Travis hearing?). If Travis had killed Blake (and assuming no Andromedans), how long before he couldn't find reasons to keep on living? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Twenty Moments, Etc.
by Marian de Haan 12 Jun '01

12 Jun '01

Jacqui asked: >So who was the 'best computer person' & what became of him/her?< In Space Fall, Vila introduces Avon to Blake as the number two man in all the Federated worlds when it comes to computers. To the inevitable question who the number one is, Vila jokes: "Well, the man who caught him, of course." Like most of Vila's statements, I don't think we should take this one too seriously. If Avon really was that kind of genius, it would have been more profitable for the Federation to *pay* him the 5 million Credits to retain his services. Marian

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Blakes7 June 2001