Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: slash
by Steve Rogerson 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

Fiona said: "Yes, but if you saw me eating chocolate ice cream all the time? If, when offered a choice between chocolate and vanilla, I inevitably pick chocolate? If I talk to you about how much I like chocolate ice cream, but never mention vanilla?" That doesn't mean you won't eat vanilla if the shop's sold out of chocolate. And she said: "Similarly, if a character in B7 has relationships with women, expresses admiration for women's physical attributes ("I like God's taste in servants!" e.g.), and never seems to express any sort of similar interest in men, I'd assume a *slight* preference for women." No-one's denying that the men show a preference for women (apart from Blake who shows no preference), but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have a gay relationship. All we are saying here is that it is a viable avenue for fan fiction to explore and that some of the reactions, notably between Blake and Avon, can be interpreted that way. I know you don't interpret them that way, but there are many fans that do, and their view is also valid. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Blake/Jenna
by Marian de Haan 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

Betty Ragan wrote: >Fiona Moore wrote: >> If you're talking about the "Do I have a choice?" scene, the contact is slightly longer than usual but no more than is necessary given that there has just been an explosion; Blake's eyes are quite cold and we don't actually see Avon's. Way ahead of you :).<< >Yes, that's the one, but it seems a *lot* longer than necessary to me. < I think he just forgets where his hand is. We see that happen more often. For example in Sarcophagus, IIRC when Cally asks for a straight answer, he lifts his arm and points a finger at her and leaves his arm in that position for a long time. This happens on other occasions, but just now I can't remember exactly where. Marian

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Plea to Leah and Shane
by Rita d' Orac 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:45:40 EST Caveatemptor1(a)aol.com writes: <snip> > I've already had to killfile Wendy, Fiona, Kingpin, Shane, Neil and a few > others. But this is getting rediculous. <more snipping> Ooh, I haven't had a go at this killfiling game yet. Let's see, there's a list of subscriber emails kicking around somewhere <rummages in overflowing mailbox for Calle's admin posting> ... now all I have to do is killfile everybody on the list and then I won't have to read any posts that disagree with me! Wow - why didn't I think of this earlier?. Rita ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Sports (was modes of engagement)
by Ellynne G. 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

I don't think Avon is really into any sports per se (chess tournaments, yes, and maybe some of the more mentally rigorous game shows), but Avon - Made a study of whatever sports/teams Blake supported. Immediately went out and got the posters, banners, jerseys, etc. of the rival team. Insists on watching their games regularly whenever Blake wants the telly. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Plea to Leah and Shane
by Ashton7＠aol.com 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/10/01 6:29:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, d.day(a)thefreeinternet.co.uk writes: << I know this may sound stupid, but what is killfiling? I just delete things I can't be bothered to read right through, or am not following the thread of. Is it block a specific address, which might be difficult because things come via the B7 list, or what? >> Debbie, it is indeed blocking a single email address. How you do it depends on your individual mail software. In the case of the 2 individuals on this list that I blocked, it had nothing to do with anything they were saying on the list (which I can quite easily delete, as you say) but was actually because I repeatedly asked them to stop sending me PRIVATE emails and they openly refused to do so. I do not have to put up with that kind of behavior and I blocked their email addresses. End of problem. Annie

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RE: [B7L] Spaced
by Louise Rutter 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

Una wrote: ><great alarm> Is it repeated? I missed it last night because we had to tape >Buffy and Angel. Worry not, 12.25am tonight (or Sunday mroning if you're feeling pedantic) Louise

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Re: [B7L] Plea to Leah and Shane
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

No problem. You're right, it's become the ultimate sin for a mailing list--boring. Besides, being ignored will probably do more damage than anything else I could possibly say! Leah

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Re: [B7L] Plea to Leah and Shane
by Deborah Day 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --------------------------------------------------------------- >I've already had to killfile Wendy, Fiona, Kingpin, Shane, Neil and a few >others. But this is getting rediculous. I'm sick of it. I know this may sound stupid, but what is killfiling? I just delete things I can't be bothered to read right through, or am not following the thread of. Is it block a specific address, which might be difficult because things come via the B7 list, or what? Debbie

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Re: [B7L] Recent slash discussions etc
by Tavia 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

Cheryl wrote: >This wasn't actually my point - I'm not arguing the >rights or wrongs of porn - I don't like it - but >that's not the issue, the issue is introducing it in a >market that is not conditioned for it and displaying >the likeness of *non porn* actors on pornographic >illustrations. I should make it clear that I was discussing only written material in my post. >In the case of violence Vs sex in relation to a child >- I think a B7 type story with blown up installations, >Servalan up to her usual machinations, etc, actually >has less of a possible harmful effect in the written >form and even the show itself as opposed to explicit >sex, especially if the cover illustrates the 'heroes' >in a suggestive pose and even more so should they be >of the same sex. I guess I'd better qualify that >statement - Children understand the difference between >good and bad only too well, however; if you start >introducing them to complex human relationships then >you could end up with one very confused child. I disagree. While a merry romp through blowing up installation of the week probably doesn't have much effect on the average child -- though I'd personally consider that an example of desensitisation -- I've read stories in genzines that dealt explicitly with some fairly brutal violence (to pick just one example, 'Hunter' by Neil Faulkner in Star Two) and furthermore that seem to some extent to glorify violence-dealing tech. My point is simply that it seems odd to me that *explicitly* violent stories (I wouldn't call blowing up Federation installation particularly explicit) appear to be ok in genzines with no age statement, while even quite tame reference to sex, especially homosexual, is deemed 'adult-only'. I'd personally rather deal with the child who's just learned that some humans engage in homosexual relationships than the one who gets the impression violence is the solution to his/her problems. >If I've read this right, then you are saying that >erotica only is dull - B7 type stories only is dull, >therefore a mix of the two allows for a diversity in >style to satisfy a range of moods. Actually that wasn't really my point. I meant that a gen story is constrained by not being able to mention sex, and especially not homosexual sex. Some stories that works fine for. Great. But... some gen stories feel as if they've been squeezed into an alternate universe where the possibility of sex doesn't exist. Not so great. Conversely, in a slashzine, knowing that the outcome of the character interactions is going to be sex can spoil the fun -- for me. >That I >personally would thoroughly enjoy an (for e.g.)Avon >and Jenna pairing story, I would prefer they >acknowledge genuine feelings for each other in said >story but a love making scene would be very acceptable >to me - (IMO) this is not porn, however; I think we've already covered the 'I like tasteful stories, you enjoy erotica and he's addicted to porn...' paradox. [Before we started this debate I was *certain* that 'porn' related to visual and erotica to written depictions of sexual acts. My dictionary believes otherwise.] >I would still >say that it should be in an adults only zine - some >things should remain the province of adults. The >children will mature eventually, then the choice is >theirs. I agree that the overall rating of a zine should reflect the rating of the most-likely-to-offend story contained therein. >Only one thief and one attempt at embezzlement >no murderers ' I'd be interested to know where you got this from. I understood that both Gan and Avon's crimes included murder. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Kathryn's convention report/slash
by Marian de Haan 10 Mar '01

10 Mar '01

Neil wrote: >That's probably my biggest gripe about not just slash readings but het readings too. They reduce the characters to nothing but their sexuality. Nobody, straight, gay or whatever, is that one-dimensional. Adult fic seems to separate the entire universe into Sex and Everything Else, and promptly homes in on the sex. I consider the Everything Else to be not only more interesting but more important as well. Consequently I tend to avoid adult fic not because it squicks me (it doesn't, I'm virtually unsquickable unless animals get involved), but because it's just so bloody *boring*.< Exactly my feeling. The concentration on only one aspect of the show - and one that did never play a significant role - does not appeal to me. But then, I *like* stories about Blake blowing things up. And about Avon and Vila taking the chance for some private enterprising when Blake's back is turned. If the show had been about the crew sitting on Liberator's couches talking about their feelings, I wouldn't have kept watching. (Although seeing *that* lot psycho-analysing each other could be fun. :-) ) If they'd all been loyally following Blake's orders, I would probably have watched, but never become a fan. It's the combination of Action/adventure and life-like characters that appeals to me. The recent discussion about slash has left me rather bemused about the blatant disregard for canon and the writers' intent expressed by some lystmembers. In writing B7 fanfiction, we are in effect hijacking characters created by others. It's something I, for one, am acutely aware of, and it makes me feel obliged to keep to the canon, out of respect for the show's creators. As I writer, I'd hate it if someone would take the characters from my books and distort them to the point where they would become unrecognisable to me. And it would hurt even more if they then went on to claim that their version was the way I had really intended the characters to be, and kept ignoring my denials. Of course, some parts of the canon can be interpreted differently. B7 fandom consists of all kinds of different interpretations and preferences that can exist happily alongside each other. But, IMO Fiona's excellent comment about the lack of canonical evidence for homosexual tendencies in the main characters is pretty conclusive, as are the declarations of the writers and actors. I'm not suggesting that people stop writing slash, apparently it brings a lot of fun to a lot of people, and having fun is what fandom is about. However, there's a difference between "I know it's not canon but it's fun," and "I don't give a damn about the creators' intent!" The first approach at least recognises the input of the creators and takes their feelings into consideration (up to a point). The latter amounts to theft of the characters. Characters that are not ours, but that we are privileged to be allowed to use. Just IMHO. Marian

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Blakes7 March 2001