so far we have been discussing things that pike needs to handle a module repository, how we want the repository organized, but we have not yet looked at the steps needed to get the ball rolling.
some of these things already exist, but if so then all the better:
first: * we need a server where people can upload their files. * a place where they can register for an account. * a place where they can announce their module. (this should ask questions like the desired class name) * integration of these into the pike site.
then: it should be possible to browse the class hierarchy to download classes and read docs at the same time. both should be available by simple memorizable urls like:
http://pike.ida.liu.se/classes/Protocols/LMTP/Server/
(this would also be nice for the docs themselves. ie: generated/manual/modref/ex/predef_3A_3A could be linked to something short)
i believe the fixes to the module build process are not a prerequisite for this part here. they can be done in paralell or even after this.
does the pike site have everything we need? should we have another site? do we have volunteers to set it up?
greetings, martin.
I don't know how useful a website will be until it's possible to build and install modules (with regard to the build process limitations I mentioned previously), though I suppose that its something that can be worked on in parallel.
Concerning the storage of actual module distributions, my past experience is that having each developer host their modules is a recipe for end user frustration. locations change, people forget to update their information, servers go down, and in the end, good code ends up getting lost forever.
I think that it would be good to get a nice short website name (no offense to the ida folks), that would be easy to remember and type in. Remember, this is as much a marketing function as writing articles and advertisements.
www.pikemodules.org www.pikeprawn.org www.pmods.org
etc.
I'd be glad to set things up at least initially, as I've got a little extra bandwidth. Eventually, my hope is that the modules and information would be replicated multiple places.
As far as documentation goes, it would be nice to have a target that extracted documentation without having to build the module. That way, when a module were uploaded, it would theoretically be possible to merge the documentation into the repository documentation tree.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Martin Baehr wrote:
$ whois pike-community.org Status:CLIENT HOLD Status:PENDING DELETE [snip] Registrant ID:23532171-NSI Registrant Name:Idonex AB Registrant Organization:Idonex AB Registrant Street1:Box 449 Registrant City:Linkoping Registrant Postal Code:58105 Registrant Country:SE Registrant Email:zino@LYSATOR.LIU.SE
I'd vote for a pike community website and a section in this website devoted to external modules.
I don't know that the two need to be related. Strictly speaking, modules don't really have anything to do with a "community". community is all about discussing and sharing what you've done and feeling warm and fuzzy. there's a lot of fluff in that sentence that doesn't help the process of finding and installing modules quickly and easily. the website for the module repository should be all about modules, nothing more.
consider the standpoint of an end user trying to get some software working, they don't want to have to dig through a website just to get to the point where they can find modules. Now, if there were a link between the two, that would be fine, but consider this:
cpan.org vs pike-community.org/modules vs pmod.org
that's over 3 times as much typing. most users are far too lazy to go through the trouble. unless there's a compelling reason to do something, the path of least trouble usually wins out. unfortunately, pike is not such a dominant force (yet) that we can afford to make things difficult on end users.
please don't take this to mean that I don't think community is important. i spent years trying to develop a roxen/caudium community website, and frankly, the results weren't spectacular. I just don't think we should shoot ourselves in the foot by trying to have one website that does everything for everyone.
just my 2 cents :)
bill
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, David Gourdelier wrote:
pmod.org then,
then the name is the same as the extension. (cmod.org is already taken)
although i prefer names that include the string pike.
greetings, martin.
On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 01:28:08PM -0400, Bill Welliver wrote:
that's over 3 times as much typing. most users are far too lazy to go through the trouble. unless there's a compelling reason to do something,
You forgot about bookmarks, favourites and inline-completion features of modern browsers :)
Someone who wants to get in will get in, no matter what it is, someone who is too lazy is probably too lazy to use Pike anyway :)
Regards, /Al
i hardly use bookmarks, they tend to amass themselves and then it becomes just as hard to find something.
if i can't remember the name, i use google. (here is one reason why i want 'pike' in the hostname, the site is much easier to recognize in a search that way)
greetings, martin.
On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 09:31:24PM +0200, Martin Baehr wrote:
Hostname is hardly used in Google and similar searches, content is more important (just did search on "pike modules" on Google, got relevant sites without "pike" in their names).
Bookmarks, when you use them properly, are very useful. Anyway, there is still inline completion (if you remember part of site name).
And I don't think that _useful_ site will not be used _only_ because it is hard to remember (or type).
Regards, /Al
the hostname may not be used by google itself, but it is certainly used by the user, because a hostname that matches the right keyword is way more likely to not only contain the right stuff but be a site dedicated to it.
greetings, martin.
On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 02:10:18AM +0200, Martin Baehr wrote:
by the user, because a hostname that matches the right keyword is way more likely to not only contain the right stuff but be a site dedicated
Try pike.(com|net|org|info|biz) - is it right keyword, then?
Is it really difficult to bind keywork "pike" in your browser to the list of releveant sites? Is it difficult to remember that in folder named "Pike" you have a list of sites related to Pike?
It is a bit too much to guess which name might have a site dedicated to pike modules, and it will take a lot of time to guess (pmods? pike-modules? modules-for-pike? damn... 10 mins later: what it can be?), while keyword search on Google or similar engine will take just a few secs, regardless of the host name (and same time for bookmark).
The name of the host (and it's length) doesn't matter. The content does.
People tend to forget host names, email addresses, phone numbers, etc, only because it is easy to recall them from well-know location - bookmarks, address book or [mobile] phone memory. That's why host name doesn't matter.
Among other things, there may be _several_ sites with Pike modules... Imagine pike-mods1, pike-mods2, etc... I see no particular reason why I should visit only one while looking for modules...
And I see no reason to remember name for the site which is visited often enough (one click only - you have a "quick dial" or "hot key" in browsers too, bind it to Alt-P if you are too lazy to type in or to remember, place it on your desktop, whatever - it still will be _much_ quicker than typing in full name - one click/keypress is less than five/ten anyway).
NB: No offense... Just my opinion :)
Regards, /Al
distribiuting is a latter problem indeed, collecting them is prior.
greetings, martin.
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