Sigh.
Stop treating Pike developing version as a release version. If you don't want to be involved in the development of the langauge Pike, stay away from the develop version.
No changes are secret. The CVS is there for everyone to read. There is a fully functional and very usable CVS viewer at the Pike site. Use it.
Yes we can... But AFAIK "official" system was optional some day ago. So giving it as mandatory will give us (= Caudium) more problems than it solve.
I fixed the Makefile for an external module made at Roxen IS a few years back to use the "official" system. It was as complicated as making a Makefile with
all: (cd Module; pike -x module all module.so MAKE=$(MAKE))
I am a bit surprised that so much changes inside current pike (that'll maybe be future stable pike ?) are not public ?
I'm surprised that you think much has changed. You need to update your Makefile. Had you made your Makefile properly (i.e. including the apropriate src/modules/ include files) you wouldn't even need that.
I have asked for a commit log sent by mail one year ago to help external developpers to see what are the changes... But nothing as usual...
There are no internal developers. Only those who do stuff and those who don't. There are no secret meetings where Roxen and ex-Roxen people decide the future of Pike. This is where Pike development is discussed. Appearently no one else thought it was necessary to complement the CVS viewer with a mailer. Why have you not made a mailer yourself?
The main problem is killing API will kill pike because :
I am a bad C programmer. I am a fairly decent programmer, but I'm not good at C. That hasn't stopped me from making several C-modules using the cmod API without really having any help from anyone. I agree that it is tricky to have to look for calling examples in the code or reading the actual core code instead of a proper documentation. Anyone who knows some C can really write a C API documentation, and I have several times asked the "pike community" for help, but nothing as usual...
/ Martin Nilsson (provokatör)
Previous text:
2004-03-29 19:21: Subject: Re: ADD_FUNCTION() macro on pike 7.5 ?
Le 29 mars 04, à 14:35, Bill Welliver a écrit :
Well, while it would have been nice to know that this happened up front, it's not the end of the world, really. I mean, as an example, the caudium devel tree only supports 7.5, so why not use the new "official" system? It would certainly clean up the mess of stuff we have to spend our time maintaining, wouldn't it?
Yes we can... But AFAIK "official" system was optional some day ago. So giving it as mandatory will give us (= Caudium) more problems than it solve.
As for old stuff, I personally am working on getting the development version stable so I don't have to maintain old code. And for code that must be kept, I do it separately. We'll probably expend more effort discussing the merits and whys of this situation longer than it would take to just "bite the bullet" and do it.
I think it's unreasonable to expect things to not change and improve just so we lazy developers don't have to update our code. Once every four years isn't that bad.
I agree, but low level change should not be kept secret... And I still think that changing low level thing on Pike C modules every day will make some developper more and more lazy about Pike...
I am a bit surprised that so much changes inside current pike (that'll maybe be future stable pike ?) are not public ?
Where is a changelog about that ? Nothing ?
I have asked for a commit log sent by mail one year ago to help external developpers to see what are the changes... But nothing as usual...
The main problem is killing API will kill pike because :
- no changelog
- too little (or maybe near no) docs for core developpers
- some things are very hard to be done... :
- cmod : is there any BNF / docs clearly explained on how to make
them ?
- pike C modules : they are bloody hard to make, but changing the low
level api will tell developpers : "ok the thing is not mature, I will go somewhere else where it is mature".
Maybe this is done for a secret reason, but what ever it is, it is very not a good think for our litle pike community.
My 0,02...
/Xavier
-- Xavier Beaudouin - Unix System Administrator & Projects Leader. President of Kazar Organization : http://www.kazar.net/ Please visit http://caudium.net/, home of Caudium & Camas projects
/ Brevbäraren