Blakes7 April 2001

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70 participants
295 discussions

newbies watching season 4
by padme＠bantha.org 19 May '01

19 May '01

I've been introducing a few folks from a college science fiction group to Blake's 7 this academic year. We're in the final stages now... we watched Traitor and Stardrive this week. It's been very instructive to see the series through new eyes. The group includes an Avon fan, a Vila fan, a Gan fan who is amazed that anyone might deny the intensity of the Blake-Avon relationship, and someone who watches to glory in the bad special effects and good stories. We took some time after these last episodes to talk about it (and the Neon Genesis Evangelion marathon we'd all attended recently, but I digress). Some observations: * They don't like Servalan. One of them thinks she's just dumb and ridiculous; others tolerate her. But none of them *likes* her, and I've always thought she was wonderful fun. I'm thinking they won't be waiting for her to appear at the end of Blake like so many other people I know did their first time through. I'd say these are just people with an insufficient appreciation of camp, but they *adored* Gambit. * Warning people about Ben Steed helps. I said he was my least favorite writer and horribly sexist, before each of his episodes. It helps... if people go into those episodes with low expectations they can find, I think, more enjoyment from them than they would otherwise. However, the other girl in the group found no redeeming value in Power whatsoever. I had said that it was Steed's most sexist episode, but that it had redeeming factors (I was thinking of Nina and Cato, and Vila's work on the door, pretty much--and I find Gunn Sar hilarious). Cassia disagreed... she said she felt just dirty after watching it. Oh dear. * No Tarrant fans. They seem pretty much to regard him as an interloper, and more than one has called him an asshole during episodes--none of the other regulars has gotten such harsh negative language. They liked him in Deathwatch and Rumours, but they don't *like* him. Opinions are much divided on Vila (buffoon? clever schemer? nice guy caught up in larger events?). The Avon fan dismisses *his* confrontation with Pella as never having happened, and the Vila fan (who also likes Avon) rejects Stardrive's "Who?" as wrong, as doing violence to the character of Avon. I think that line fits well with what is yet to come, but I can't tell her that yet. The main criticism at this point in the series (again, early season 4) seems to be that nobody but Vila and Avon is getting any character development. Tarrant and Dayna have regressed to different degrees of followerness without the spark they had when they were each introduced. Soolin we haven't seen enough of yet. I'd say that Vila and Avon are reacting to their new direr circumstances, but that the others aren't particularly. They were all but one *furious* at Servalan's return in Traitor. They felt it was a cheap cheat. What could I say? Yeah, it rather is, but those making the show thought the series was ending as they filmed Terminal, right? I suppose people who liked Servalan more would be more willing to overlook the flimsiness of her continued existence. The guy who comes for the bad effects and good story is much disappointed with the beginning of the "find scientists, kill them off" series of episodes. Other than the bike racing in Stardrive, for example, he felt the effects were too good and the story too weak. ;-) And various characters that people would like to see as new regulars have not been added, and have mostly died. People they've thought might be added to the crew (or might stick around the show, before its format became clear) most recenly include Dorian and Dr. Plaxton, but I thought people might be interested in the list of what-ifs so far. It's not exhaustive of the good possibilities, of course, it's just what this group saw: The Way Back: Tel Varon Space Fall: Nova (of course), Leylan and Artix (!!! Interesting potential there) Cygnus Alpha: Arco Mission to Destiny: Levett Project Avalon: Avalon Orac: Ensor Pressure Point: Veron (especially since Gan had just died and seemed to want replacing) Killer: Dr. Bellfriar or Gambrill (okay, these are just me) City at the Edge of the World: Kerril, of course Rumours: Okay, they didn't expect Grenlee and Forres to join up, but oh did they love them. They also appreciated Quute and the general in Traitor. Moloch: Doran (but only early on) Rescue: Dorian Stardrive: Dr. Plaxton I must say that I'd love to see Artix or Dorian or Plaxton continue to interact with our crew. Claudia

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Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 04 May '01

04 May '01

Here's another little exercise, if anyone's interested, in two parts: If you could change just three things about the series - with no restrictions on cast, budget, scripting etc - what would they be? (Obviously, *my* first would be "don't let Blake go.") If you could change just three episodes, which are they and how would you do it? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Jenny Kaye 02 May '01

02 May '01

Sally wrote: >Oh, are you being sarcastic? > >This is (the last time I checked) a Blakes 7 mailing list. Possibly the >fact >that people disagree on interpretation points has led to the conclusion >that >some are on a Blakes 7 mailing list for reasons other than the fact that >they enjoy Blakes 7. Hey, wait a minute! All I did was make a bit of a joke, cause I thought it was a bit funny that the announcement about ebay told everyone who Chris Boucher was and that he wrote Rumours of Death, when they would surely already know that if they watch B7. So, 1/ it was meant as sarcasm but about a particular post, not a swipe at fans in general, and 2/ if the joke was on anyone, it was on Judith (and at that it was kindly meant). I wish people around here would stop getting so upset and snarky all the time. It's no wonder the Lyst's been quiet; I think everyone's scared of having their head torn off. >Topic (and previous discussion on Vila) closed. > >Okay, anyone want to discuss something deep and meaningful like Servalan's >wardrobe? Well, sorry, but wasn't it you who said a couple of days ago that there wasn't enough discussion going on? I'm sorry that you're upset, but I thought we were just airing our different views about Vila. If you're going to take it personally, then I don't want to discuss it with you either. A sadder and wiser, Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 01 May '01

01 May '01

Stephen wrote: <Surely, if you're going to have an actor play Anna then there can be no objection to having Gan take over Jenna's lines in the Keeper :-)> And he'd pair-bond with Tara, of course. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Jenny Kaye 01 May '01

01 May '01

Judith Proctor wrote: > >for those who don't know, Chris was the script editor on Blake's 7 and > >also wrote many of my favourite episodes such as Rumours of Death. Thanks for that Judith, though I think it's also best to add that for those who don't know, Blake's 7 was a British science fiction drama series that ran from 1978 to 1981. Some of you might have seen it, or even possess the odd episode on video. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 01 May '01

01 May '01

Una wrote: <Or I'd change 'The Web': I'd burn all copies of it and then jump up and down on the still smouldering ashes.> Oh but Una, my friend, my dear dear friend, you'd clip out the good A-B bits for Judith and me first, wouldn't you? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change
by Sally Manton 01 May '01

01 May '01

Una wrote: <The only bit about 'Sarcophagus' that drives me insane is, as I said in a post the other day, that bloody line about being beautiful <throw> > You definitely have a point about that line (actually, thinking about the Tarrant/Servalan dialogue in Sand, I start to wonder if Tanith Lee was a secret bodice-ripper addict???). A *lot* of episodes have one or two 'how *did* they say that with a straight face' lines (am thinking of Orac - Blake and the obelisk - for a start). The bit I do like best about Sarcophagus is Vila's shadowy 'magic show' in the middle - it could be so *dreadfully* twee in the wrong hands, and Michael Keating carries it off wonderfully, right to the curling up at the end. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Sand (was: If you could change)
by Marian de Haan 01 May '01

01 May '01

Una wrote: >Tanja wrote: >> the fantasy fan in me has no problem with both the resurrected Alien and the conscious sand. > >No, I never had a problem with either of these, possibly because I was so young when I watched them. Vampire sand is a perfectly reasonable proposition when you're nine.< I have no problem with the sand. It's Servalan getting soppy that makes my suspension of disbelieve snap. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Jenny Kaye 01 May '01

01 May '01

Mistral wrote: > > > Do you think it could be because Vila is talking crap? > > > >Actually, you're making an assumption that Vila was trying to distract > >Avon, > >and so your question is inherently biased. > >I don't agree with that > >assumption; I simply think he was breaking off a tangential discussion > >that was going away from what he really wanted to talk about How can you possibly say that you know what he "really" wanted to talk about? All you can go by is what's on the screen. - his > >unease about what was going on down on Obsidian. If that's true then why doesn't he say that? "Avon, what really *is* worrying me is not knowing what's happening on the surface of Obsidian," but no, instead he mounts a personal attack on Tarrant. Why? Because he knows that there is friction between Tarrant and Avon and that to his mind bringing it up is the best way to head off the conversation. Like in Orbit, when Vila tries to hide his cowardice by saying that Avon needs to take someone else down to Egrorian's base, because he will need Vila on the ship to keep a keen eye on Tarrant. You don't really think Avon's response --"If I didn't know you better, I'd say you were trying to get out of this," is serious, surely? As you've pointed out > >yourself in a later portion of your post: > > > > > The scene in Volcano continues with Cally saying, "And what about Dayna? > > > Don't you trust her either?" Vila responds by manufacturing an air of > > > contrived nonchalance and saying, "Danya's a different case entirely." > > > >Vila tends to acquire an air of faux innocence when he's lying. No. Only when cornered. > >He didn't have it when he was making the remarks about testing No, because he hadn't been caught out at that point! - he was irritated and plunged straight in, without thinking about what he was > >saying; > >this supports the idea that this portion of his remarks were > >based on truth. No, this supports the idea as to why this portion of his remarks are muddled. > >The specific reference to Space Captains was IMO likely > >an exaggeration, due to having issues with upper grades generally and > >(as Sally mentioned) Tarrant specifically. I'm with you on that, but if he's lying here, why believe anything else he says in the rest of the scene? > >My thought is that he could certainly have tested into a slightly higher > >grade, I think that's right as well, but the problem is someone who is an inveterate liar and a thief isn't someone you would want to employ in a sensitive area, or indeed anywhere. > >but didn't want the regimentation and responsibility (i.e., a > >job) that would come with it. I don't know, a cushy office job is a damn sight safer than being a thief. > >Vila likes being a thief; he's good at it. Yes, but he also likes the idea of being rich, and getting a cushy job is the faster and less strenuous way to get money than stealing. Although if you can combine the two (perhaps with a job in the civil service)... > >He'd prefer to remain a Delta, and therefore invisible. Well he wasn't invisible though, was he? He spent time on a penal planet when in his youth. He had his head "adjusted by the best in the business" on a number of occasions, and eventually he was arrested and sent to Cygnus Alpha for life. > > > Vila a Space Captain? He wouldn't pass the psychological tests let alone > >be > > > entered for "The Space Captains' exam" even if such a test existed. > > > >The tests must exist, or Avon would have called him on that immediately. The test may exist, but you don't just suddenly take an exam out of the blue and then you're a Space Captain. As indicated in Games you have to train to be one, and you've got to actually get accepted into the armed services first, which must also involve exams of some type. So yes, the test must exist, but not in the way Vila is describing. > >A lie isn't much good when the liar knows the lie-ee has all the same > >information that he does. Well, that hasn't stopped Vila before now. See Orbit, see Shadow, see Hostage etc. > > > As Avon confirmed, "A pro keeps it simple." Vila is a liar. And you > >can't get simpler than that! > > > >??? Avon was restating someone else's position when he was conjecturing > >what that person might do. And in so doing was recognising the fact that said person was a pro and therefore would keep it simple. > > That's not the same thing as confirming it. Er... Yes it is. Avon recognises the fact that a pro keeps it simple. Remember, Avon employed a similar strategy himself in Mission to Destiny. Everyone kept coming up with complicated reasons, but Avon kept it simple and therefore found the traitor. > >Afew lines later he mocks that position when he says 'Your professional > >simplicity is beginning to irritate me.' He isn't mocking the position, just expressing annoyance that such a simple position is difficult to overcome. > >Quite apart from which, professional simplicity surely shouldn't include > >ignoring relevant data, such as the fact that Vila isn't always or even > >mostly lying; No, but they should look at what's going on in the scene, then judge Vila on past experience, perhaps even test it against previous statements from him, and then come to a conclusion. Which is exactly what Avon and Cally do. They come to the conclusion that Vila was talking crap, and I agree with them. therefore it's not logical to assume that he is, without > >evidence of such. It's not an assumption. The info is there in the scene. Vila is lying. It is not however, logical for you to come up with a complex and tortured explanation as to why Vila could be telling the truth, when you acknowledged that during that short scene, Vila *does* lie on at least two occasions. Next minute you'll be saying, "But he's got such an honest face!" Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change
by Marian de Haan 01 May '01

01 May '01

Steve Rogerson wrote: >Tanith scored 50 per cent, in that Sand was a good episode but Sarcophagus was crap. However, I also note that some people have that the other way round. Puzzled.< Definitely the other way round for me :-) Marian

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Blakes7 April 2001